Phil Bohlender Auther Leadership Mentor Mentoring Coach Speaker TEDx Organizer Non-profit leader lgbt entrepreneur gay professional business owner Video Interview Podcast

Developing Authentic Leadership Reflections via COVID – Phil Bohlender

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Be a Guest or Recommend a Guest

Every day is a good day to focus on developing your leadership skills. However as we are in unprecedented recent times with the global COVID pandemic, if you choose, it is a fabulous time to reflect on your personal, professional, career, and/or entrepreneur ambitions through honing your leadership skills. We discuss the opportunity to adapt your business or launch a startup based on the new environmental conditions that COVID-19 has brought about. Change, adapt and grow or be like past iconic brands who didn’t and are no longer around. Be the new startup disruptor seizing new opportunities.

Phil Bohlender on OutBüro >

Phil Bohlender is an LGBT author, entrepreneur and a unique thinker on leadership. In our casual conversation, Phil states his book may be read cover to cover in just two hours and has reflective exercises at the end of each chapter. It may be kept close at hand to be a continual reference as you experience different situations. We discuss how leadership activities happen in all areas of your life from personal interactions with a spouse/life partner, parenting, family relations, and even friendships. Improving leadership skills is for all ages from teens in school, Young adults in college and starting there careers, and adults for personal and professional growth. Maybe you want to be a leader in a non-profit or step up influence at work. The skills Phil teaches are easy to grasp and put to practical use. For very early in his professional career,

Phil has been out as a gay professional. He is an LGBT author, entrepreneur, coach, consultant, and speaker. Further, grow your skills and grab Phil’s book on Coaching. Again the principles may be applied to nearly all your relationships. In our chat, we discussed some examples of leadership in our own past and current work as examples while having a laugh too. Phil is available for panel discussions, speaking engagement live or virtual as well as training/coaching individuals or groups.

Conversation Auto Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:04
Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro you’re listening to out bureau voices, the video interview and podcast interview new sessions with LGBT leaders, entrepreneurs and professionals around the globe. Today, I am so thrilled to be chatting with Bill bohlander. We have actually had numerous conversations on the telephone over the last year or so. And this is actually the first time that we’ve had a video dialogue. So we have a lot of history and looking forward to our conversation now. Welcome so much, Phil to the show. Thank you, Dennis. It’s

Unknown Speaker 0:47
a pleasure to be on your show and also to get to see you.

Unknown Speaker 0:51
Well, Leonor, hey, I it’s early. I’m having my coffee. I’ve got the lightnings going. So yes, a little bit of time. Up here. It’s all good. It’s

Unknown Speaker 1:01
all good.

Unknown Speaker 1:03
Yes. So So Phil, you know, of course, you know, because you and I have had numerous conversations, even there almost weekly for a while. And, you know, so I have a pretty good understanding, I believe, but and every time you come up with something new, that you’re working on that for our listeners and viewers out around the world, give us an overview for you know, five or seven minutes of your, your background. And then, you know, let’s lead up into what you are doing now. And I see you have a couple of your books on your background. Obviously check it out. So take it away, Phil, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:49
I’ve been coached well, right this way this way, I think. Well. So thank you. Again, it’s very thrilling to be here. So what I love about your platform is that it’s a professional platform. And so what I want to share with you is that in 1982, if we could go all the way back to January of 1982, and I won’t take you through every year individually, I started my first corporate position. It was at a fortune 100 company. And for for whatever reasons I had the wherewithal to come out in the first four months, and this is at a time when working in Texas, I could have been terminated just for coming out. There was massive anti LGBT energy going on. And so I started my career by coming out and I remained out for 35 years in my corporate career, and my corporate career spanned working for six fortune 100 companies. In the service industry, I went on to a family owned business in the manufacturing industry. I was fortunate to work on five continents in 20 countries and all the while developing This passion and proficiency around leadership, I felt very responsible as a leader, I felt very responsible for the people that I was working with, and also for the work that was entrusted to me. So lots of focus and lots of attention on developing as a leader. And what’s key to me about being a leader is this coaching and mentoring model. So it’s not the heavy stick and you know, coming at people in really harsh ways, but really about empowering them and asking them questions about how they want to lead and how they want to become bigger and better leaders. And then what happened was, it seemed as though the place to be the one who developed other leaders was in the places where there was the most chaos. And so what I loved was I kept getting called in to take operations and turn them upside down and put them back together because they were completely out of whack. One example was I took the job. And it was very interesting because all throughout the interview process, I kept asking them So what am I walking into? So what’s the inventory? What are some of the key issues that you want me to take on right away and get solved? They wouldn’t tell me they wouldn’t tell me they wouldn’t tell me. I’m a risk taker. I liked enough about the job that I took the job. And I moved my family, my partner at the time to another city in order to take on this job. When I went into this job in the first week, I asked for the reports around the inventory, the reports came in and they were stacked this high, and they were all across my credenza. I said, I just want the summary page, show me the summary page. So it’s a summary page Dennis, and it had the number 83 on it, and I said, I thought the standard was five. I said it is I said so the inventory is at 83 days and we need to get it to five or under. So there’s a whole story around how I got it the fiber under with the working around the leadership development and the business transformation. So 35 years really excited about what i what i did during that time. I will tell you that I’m risk taker and an adventure when it comes to my career. So I’m not afraid of ever doing anything that other people might walk away from. And it was interesting as I reflected having my own business over the last few years, um, maybe just maybe some of the jobs while I was qualified for them. There probably weren’t people out there as crazy as me to take them. So I got, I got to take on these jobs and literally turn things upside down, put them back together. So just a rich, rich, rich corpora

Unknown Speaker 5:31
e career. Awesome. Ok

Unknown Speaker 5:36
y. And so Hey, tell us about some of the books though that because you do have them right up in your background. So why don’t we jump into those? I know you and I could then spin off into lots of dialogues.

Unknown Speaker 5:48
xcellent. So what I’ll tell you about it, the first book, it’s on the top there. You can tell I’ve never done the weather. So the first book is called the seven essential traits of leaders And what came to me was that every leader must have a style. So it’s the thing around being intentional. And the thing about having, as we call it now a brand around your leadership. So the seven essential traits for leaders, for me, leaders is an acronym. And so each of those acronyms is a trait characteristic that you want to take into your leadership style. It’s, it’s what I modeled my leadership style around. So if not these seven, pick three or seven or some number that works for you. So I’ll just tease with the first one. The first one L is for listening. And what I know over and over again, is that being Lisp, being a listener is about being intentional. It’s about pausing and letting the other person in, you know, inviting the other person to share and speak. So that book is really exciting. And it’s gotten a lot of attention in terms of doing some speaking gigs, some workshops here locally and now of course, in the COVID environment. I’m delivering a program around that book in the virtual world. The coach’s book is the second of the books that I didn’t even know that I was going to write. And it’s really around being a coach within the leadership model. And so I’ll let you figure out what the coaches acronym are. And what’s interesting about it is it’s a really great compliment to the leadership. And I thought, Okay, I have one for one end of the book, and you know, the shelf and the other end of the book, so shelf rather. So now I have these bookends, and I’m done. And now you know, recently, I got this idea for writing a book called The seven essential traits of mentors, because at my age, I’m really stepping into being a mentor for other leaders. And so what I’m going to do is I’m going to offer those seven traits around how to be a mentor to others. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to be my age in order to be a mentor. Certainly there are younger people who mentor me around technology on a regular basis and I’m really grateful for them. So really, so my books are really centered around leadership coaching and mentoring. Um, and, uh, the whole, the whole idea to it is be intentional as

Unknown Speaker 8:09
a leader. Awesome, very g

Unknown Speaker 8:12
od. And I pardon man, and I do like the, you know, you were always evolving. Yes, businesses are always evolving. You’re always evolving. Well, that’s well, no, let me take that back. Businesses are not always evolving. And if they don’t constantly evolve, what do they do? They go out of business. Yeah. Yeah. don’t adapt. You know, look, look at industry, look at businesses that we that were common household names just eight years ago, 10 years ago. Yes. And they’re nowhere now. Exactly. And, you know, like Barnes and Noble, for example. I mean, they’re there. Very few stores I think are even out there. Yeah. And as people, we have to do the same, right? Yeah. If If we don’t constantly take a learning, which is I personally like you love challenging situations and my corporate consulting, I was known as a paratrooper. So I would go into the worst accounts, and the worst accounts and where projects were not being delivered the consultants on it, you know, like, because at one point, I had 38 staff. And so you know, like, let’s say I and I was the founder of the company, so, but even before I became a business owner, I was known for that. So if I was working for a consulting firm, that had a project, and if I had any at all, not even domain experience On what was going on just pure project management? Yes, they would send me in. And so, so, but yes, so for, for me constantly learning is is one of the hallmarks, and constantly adapting. And so you’re, you know, started out with the leadership book and the coaching book and moving on to the mentorship book, I think is great. Now, would you recommend kind of reading them in that order? Or is there maybe now that you have three? Is there maybe a different order that you think makes sense for someone? Are they each and then and to themselves, you know, kind of their o

Unknown Speaker 10:39
n island? So that’s a really great question and one that I wouldn’t have thought of because of the fact that I only thought I was going to write the one book. Now I have to with the third one on its way, right. So if I were coaching, let’s say if I were leading coaching or mentoring someone and they asked me that question, likely what I would do is I would have them start with the leadership book, I firmly believe that everyone is a leader in their life. So they may have the formal title of it or they may not. However, I think being a leader is a universal. And so for me, I would have people read the leaders book first, and then follow it by the coaching because the coaching really gives the underpinning to the leadership model. Because when you’re a coach and the leadership role, you’re going to be more engaging, empowering, supportive, these kinds of things that really, they my experiences this, Dennis, that those things in your leadership model, then include coaching, bring out the best in others, people are more likely to do more for you. They’re more likely to do more for the organization, when their coach and coaching Of course, for me is around asking versus telling, and then opening the space for them to find their own solutions to it because people Let’s face it, people don’t want to be told what to do. They want to be asked for their opinions and valued. So first book leaders, second book coaches, and then when mentors comes out, by all means, buy it and read it. And what I’ll tell you is that these are very, very quick reads. These are not meant to be textbooks, they’re not meant to be, you know, long laborious reads. These are typically reads that can be done in under two hours. At the end of each chapter, there are a set of reflection questions as well as review. So it’s intended to have the reader do some application immediately thereafter. So not only do you read it, not only do you do the reflections at the end, but you put it somewhere close to you that you can pick it up when you want to look at something around, let’s say educating. So you’re in the middle of something that calls for you to educate, pull the book out, read the chapter, see what comes to you, either from the chapter or from your own thoughts, and then mov

Unknown Speaker 12:51
forward. Okay, so is that the

Unknown Speaker 12:53
hole book is about a two

Unknown Speaker 12:55
our read? Yes, yes. Yeah, they’re less than they’re less than 160 pages. intentionally, intentionally Okay, yea

Unknown Speaker 13:04
, gotcha. Well, I’m a slow

Unknown Speaker 13:06
eader. So it’ll take me a little bi

Unknown Speaker 13:08
of time. Well, it’s funny that you say that because I was brought up where my dad read books at night before we go to sleep. So I’m conditioned to fall asleep when I start reading, so I have to, I have to be in a very uncomfortable chair with a lot of light on me, has a book in front of me in order to read it not fall asleep.

Unknown Speaker 13:27
Oh, okay, well, and I’m more I even even as a kid Personally, I’m more of an auditory learn

Unknown Speaker 13:34
r. So you tell me something. That’s

Unknown Speaker 13:36
like what like, you know, YouTube’s watching YouTube’s you know, people go you know, if you want to learn something, or it’s probably on YouTube, right? You want to change oil. Look it up on YouTube. You’re making model is probably there and it’s true. It’s out there. And yeah, right now I’m learning video editing for a particular new software editing system and You know, just YouTube after YouTube after. So I can watch it and I can hear it. Yeah. But if I were to have to sit down with a manual, like, especially this, because it has everything you could imagine in it, I mean, yeah, hollywood Hollywood movies are made on the software that Oh, wow. And so, I mean, the book would be this thick, right? So there’s, there’s no way so I appreciate as a as, as someone, so that would be a size of book that I would possib

Unknown Speaker 14:30
y tackle. Oh, nice.

Unknown Speaker 14:32
hank you. So so so that’s good to know. And it’s good that you have those those little reflection, you know, kind of internal mental workshops at the end of each small chapter. So you know, and as you were talking something, you know, that that I was thinking about, I was intently listening, but you, you triggered something in me as

Unknown Speaker 14:57
a parent. Uh huh. And you kn

Unknown Speaker 15:01
w, Where, and just as a person as a human

Unknown Speaker 15:07
as a past lif

Unknown Speaker 15:09
partner, single right now, but still, you know, I recall the days it wasn’t so long ago, is, you know, the leadership skills that you learn for your work environment can also be applied in your everyday life. You know, hell, how many times have had, you know, at least in my past relationship, just deciding on where to go for dinner on Friday night? Yes, you know, if I didn’t make the decision, it typically didn’t happen or it was you know, I typically had to be the one my my ex is just like that. And so, it wasn’t necessarily that I was trying to lead or try to make a decision is just we’ll just say it’s a I’m looking for more of a way A different kind

Unknown Speaker 16:03
f person. One with a little bit

Unknown Speaker 16:06

Unknown Speaker 16:08
it. But, but that’s what made me think about, you know, the the leadership skills in your own personal life. Whether that’s with friends, and it’s not about lead in this way do I say now right now i’m not talking authoritarian, right? We’re talking leadership and leadership is also about working with other people and and not always being the leader at all and every 100% of the moments at the time, right? Because that’s not being a good leader, though. So, so just trying to bring that out so folks can I can hear that. And so, learning leadership skills, everyone out there, it is printed to your entire life. And what’s great is is whenever you as a as a parent, for example, let’s say, you know, you’re like my son’s 10 and a half. And there are definitely leadership skills and parenting. And if you and I don’t, you know, I can’t think of any book out there not that I know off the top of my head that really talks about parents, he didn’t get away. That would be a really good book, not for me to write. But if you’re out there someone who is a parent and a leadership coach, I just gave you a fantastic book idea. Yes. And, and then there’s also the nonprofit world. And you know, obviously, and there’s even for students, so if you’re a student out there, there’s, you know, leadership in and around your school, you’re doing activities within your your community, and all of that could lead to scholarships. Yes. So it’s a very, very fundamental ability. That is probably why you started with th

Unknown Speaker 18:10
t. Right? Well, it’s it’s very interesting because you’re, you’re you’re spot on with this. And what I love about it is that part of my mission is to share ideas, thoughts and whatnot, either through the book or other things, and then cause people to go into their own reflection and thoughts. And that’s exactly what you did. And so two things come to mind for me one, one of the very first people that I worked with is a single mother who has, I think, four or five boys. And when she saw my book and read it, she reached out to me and said, I wish that you would work with parents because I would love to be here quiet. And I said, Well, why wouldn’t I work with you as a parent? And so we work together and it was really exciting. Seeing her has some shifts in how she parented these boys. And how they continue to grow in ways that, you know, are supported by that. And then the other is it’s kind of interesting that you picked up on this. So when I did my intro, I talked about the service industry. So in the service industry, I spent about 25 years of my 35 years. Then I went into manufacturing and I spent about almost 10 years in manufacturing. So that was all about learning and growing and reinventing myself and don’t you know, right now, it’s all about nonprofits. So I serve on several boards of nonprofits here locally. I’m a volunteer with several nonprofits and I’ve just been accepted into a program that’s specifically designed to ready individuals to be nonprofit leaders. So I think my next frontier um, you know, if everything lines up, my next frontier is going to be in the nonpro

Unknown Speaker 19:52
it world.

Unknown Speaker 19:53
h, right. I’ll keep y

Unknown Speaker 19:56
u posted. Whether here o

Unknown Speaker 20:00
offline. Yeah, exactly. I mean, because let’s face it. So if there’s some of the service industry in the manufacturing industry, and then I go into nonprofit, the next thing is I’m going to have to leave the planet and go figure out what to do on anoth

Unknown Speaker 20:13
r planet. Well, they’re very interesting. And who knows, maybe some revelations will wait with all the news coming out. I’m sorry. Now, I won’t go there. Politics. There’s so many weird stuff coming out. Yes. New. Yes. And things happening. So. So I was going to say, so so who knows what announcements might be made? Maybe maybe two major companies actually have a space program that we don’t know about right now. Exactly. Anyway,

Unknown Speaker 20:48
digress. I appreciate a lot. I appreciate that. You reflected on that and you like I say, you were spot on, you picked up on a couple of things that are near and d

Unknown Speaker 20:57
ar to me

Unknown Speaker 20:58
Awesome. Ye

Unknown Speaker 21:01
h. And so So what are you

Unknown Speaker 21:06
oing now? Yes. So by my count, I have been home for about 115 days. So my last gig was speaking at the the Leadership Forum for the Bank of association ibank Association of America here in San Antonio. They were one of the last groups to come into San Antonio for the convention. So I spoke at their event in March, and then don’t you know, a couple days later, there started to be this news about this COVID thing. And so my husband is actually a transplant survivor. And as a result of that he has a suppressed immune system. I’m told that I’m in the vulnerable population being over 60. And so between the two of us we decided that we were going to stay at home. So I think I’m home now about 115 days I’ve been out five times, most recently to go vote because voting is very important to me. So what am I doing right now what I’m doing is I’m working with these, these people that I’m collaborating with. So a woman in Israel, a woman in Canada, a woman and several women around the world, different programs that we’re working on. The most notable One is we put together this program for people who are leaders to navigate how to transition through the COVID-19. So there’s information on how to be a leader, how to do the logistics, how to create wellness, etc. So that program is taken off. And it’s been very interesting to put it together because let’s face it, we’ve never done this before. We don’t know what to do when people can’t work in their offices anymore. San Antonio is now at an infection rate of one in five people who are being tested are being tested positive. Well, a lot of ways in which we need to change the way we do business. And one of the things that I’ve always done is be that change agent. So what I’m working on now is programs and collaborate. with people in other parts of the world around coaching, around adding content, material programs, that kind of stuff, I’m writing a lot. I write a column, right for a column every week, and I put that out there. So yeah, a lot of internal work, since I can’t go out into the community, um, and based on the numbers that are coming out of San Antonio in the last few days, I’m thinking I might be home another hun

Unknown Speaker 23:29
red days. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just this has been very

Unknown Speaker 23:37
ifficult. Yeah, here in Florida, you know, we we reopen? Yes, had just an incredible, you know, Spike record record numbers, you know, new cases. And it’s going to be very interesting. And my sister and I were talking the other day and she just heard From her son’s University, he’s in his first year of college out of state. And he’s been home, you know, since this is happened, like all universities have been shut down. Right. And he’s on summer break now. Right. But they just got notice this last about two days ago that there’s a high potential that the new fall semester will likely be at hom

Unknown Speaker 24:28
as well.

Unknown Speaker 24:29
Oh, okay. Yeah. So where and they’re, they’re still they’re just getting the heads up, that that might be a potential. But if so, you know, you’re looking at that would, you know, that’s going to be through

Unknown Speaker 24:43
December? Yeah, it’s interesting, because in Texas, the announcements are made that the students are going to go back to school. And so now everyone’s you know, scrambling and trying to figure that out. Here’s the thing that I’ll tell you and it goes back to my passion around being a leader. I’m so sorry. One of the models for leadership that we have available to us on a regular basis is politicians. And I don’t necessarily talk about politics, because that’s not part of who I am. And I don’t want that to be out there in the world. Because that’s that’s not how I show up or what I do. However, when you look at politicians, as leaders, which many people do, because they like to call them leaders, right, they don’t call them politicians, they call them leaders. And you look at something like COVID. And you look at it not only within your community, because we have a mayor, we have a judge. We have a governor. And then of course, we have a president and then you look beyond that to the globe. You look at countries like New Zealand with their prime minister, and you start looking at the ways in which leaders lead around these events. And what’s interesting for me is, this is why I have a passion around leadership coaching and mentoring. There is a way of approaching these things that you can balance the people and the profits because let’s face it, opening the economy is about profit. It’s not about people. And what happened in Texas, they politicized it to the point where the governor wanted one agenda. And the local authorities wanted another agenda. While we were under the initial agenda, it was flat. When the governor’s agenda was implemented it, we had 1200 and 68 cases one day this week. That’s an insane number of cases. So again, this might sound political, but it’s not. It’s an observation of leadership. And what I was impressed with, from the very, very beginning of this whole thing, no matter where you were, was, it was about the capacity volume model, which is a key component for any leader, what is the amount of incoming and do you have the resources to take the amount of incoming that’s coming in, and it’s all based on the hospital beds. So now looking at the numbers because the numbers haven’t been managed or taken care of properly. We’re now in a situation where we may not have enough beds and enough personnel to be able to support those patients. So this COVID thing has been a massive lesson. And watching leaders and how different leaders do what they do. I mean, one last thing, my husband bought me this amazing mask, because we had some masks that a friend made and sent to us. And he said, I want to take our mask up to the next level. And I’m like, you know, honey, five days out. And in 115 days, it doesn’t work, spending $20 on a mask, he’s like, No, I want you to have the best mask ever. Who would have thought wearing a mask is a statement on who I am and how I show up. It’s a mask. I’m taking care of myself. So anyway, thank you for letting me get on my soapbox. It’s not very tall. I don’t stay on for very long. This COVID thing is just a massive learning opportunity when it comes

Unknown Speaker 27:38
to leadership. Absolutely, and it’s a massive opportunity in so many

Unknown Speaker 27:48
ays, you know? The necessity is the mother of invention. Yes. So, you know, so entrepreneurs out there, that current business you know, businesses or want to be entrepreneurs? This is your time. Yep. As we talked about earlier, we weren’t even talki

Unknown Speaker 28:10
g about COVID. Rig

Unknown Speaker 28:12
t. Right. But, you know, we were talking about how, you know, if you don’t adapt, you die, yes a business. And, you know, but there’s also in in the, in the, in the

Unknown Speaker 28:29

Unknown Speaker 28:31
tile ground of change and chaos. There’s also that opportunity to seed and lead, seed and grow. Yes, see, seed, a new business and grow. Now, in doing all of that, you also have to do a few other things. And that is look at your competi

Unknown Speaker 28:56

Unknown Speaker 28:58
andscape. And

Unknown Speaker 29:00
and for that, I

Unknown Speaker 29:01
have, I think, a pretty good article on

Unknown Speaker 29:07
t. It’s called analyzing your competitors. It’s doing a SWOT analysis, which is your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. You know, look at the, the likelihood that that anywhere is going 100% go back to where we were just six months ago,

Unknown Speaker 29:34
s really slim. So, you’

Unknown Speaker 29:38
e already seen people, you know, start little mini businesses on creating face mass creating fashionable, just face masks. Yes. Okay. So, you know, and you know, lots of people pulled out their sewing machine that they haven’t used in 15 years and threw stuff together. And then for example, there’s this one fella dow

Unknown Speaker 30:02
in Fort Lau

Unknown Speaker 30:05
erdale, Florida. And he makes some pretty dang cool face masks. I mean they are truly beautiful. Yeah, where the world he gets all of his fabrics from bu

Unknown Speaker 30:15

Unknown Speaker 30:17

Unknown Speaker 30:18
y, really cool. And, you know, so that’s a little mini business or is taking something he already was doing and just adapted it yes to the current situation and you know taking a look at even your own current business and how do you adapt. So for example, on yesterday’s or just uploaded today, there is another show which kind of goes into this and that is, I think it does or I’m going to make it stretch and and tell you what, there’ll be a rate up here, go ahead and click on that. Right click it and open a new window finish this video. But then watch that one right there here in a minute. And it’s called local SEO, which is search engine optimization. So local SEO for small businesses during COVID. And so in that example, there was a local small business for a shop in New York City well with the COVID and everything was shutting down. And these two guys who run that that business a, a ag to media in New York City, that that flower shop has been their client, they did their branding and so forth. And you know, in New York City, you live and die by the foot traffic and word of mouth. So it all looked great. And the the out the gate business owner had great business. Well, so these folks took, took a leadership role and said went back to to that customer and who who was who had to let go all of a staff that said what about your local SEO? And that is getting online as nowadays people you know, they want to search online and they want to find your business online, see what you have possibly place an order online or calling an order. So you know you in order to lead it’s not just that you have to, you know, have 50 staff to lead sometimes, you know, I’m even currently still a business one, and I even have to sell lead myself. Yes, you know, and but you as a business owner or a new business owner, you have to lead your business and think about how our customers and clients finding you and engaging with you and if you don’t have the foot traffic that you did or you’re starting a new business, you know, think about it being predominantly online is, you know, one of the other factors of that, you know, for example for you, you know, obviously Phil having speaking engagements, it’s so much more common now to have a speaking engagement and do it all via online as we are talking now. Yes. So, in the past paradigm, a speaking engagement might have been had you have included either on your costs for the organization’s costs, travel expenses, right, yes

Unknown Speaker 33:44
airfare food hotel, plus, all the

Unknown Speaker 33:50
acilities, the event Where, where? And yes, there is a there is an energy

Unknown Speaker 34:00
hat you get from

Unknown Speaker 34:03
it. Being in person, all of everyone has to adapt and still be able to lead their organizations lead their nonprofits lead their, their, their industry associations, and so forth, and still have great speakers come in. And so this is an opportunity to lead. And so even for you, you know, hopefully you’re already doing this, but, you know, reaching out to people and saying, I’m available for virtual virtual summits, and here are my topics, right? Yes, being able to lead and adapt and change. So. So I just wanted, you know, to kind of retouch on that that subject, as well, because I was very impressed with that example that I got yesterday that’s now on YouTube. And again, yeah, I’ll put another link right there. And so, we have been talking we don’t have to say the name again. But we had been talking t

Unknown Speaker 35:02
In the past about a a big summit that you were working o

Unknown Speaker 35:06
, is that comp

Unknown Speaker 35:10
etely still on hold? So are you talking about the one that was going to be done here locally in Santa Fe? Yes. So here’s the exciting news. So I’m the earlier when I talk about nonprofits, one of the nonprofit’s that I serve on is TEDx San Antonio. And so while it’s my goal to be a TEDx speaker, I love getting to know organizations from the inside out. It’s just part of how I tick. And so I have the opportunity to serve on that nonprofit. And in doing so, last December, it was I was part of the organizing committee for the women’s salon, which is where we had live speakers and video speakers, all focused on women’s issues. And what came out of that was the licensee here in San Antonio asked me to be the lead organizer for a TEDx salon, specifically focused on the LGBTQ community. And so you might imagine in January, I was like kicking up my heels, I was all excited, you know, that hadn’t been done before. There’s a minimal number of talks on TEDx that are related to this. And something I really energizing, I really excited about it. And then COVID hits. And when COVID hit, I found myself being on more and more conversations, virtual conversations around, what do we do, it was that whole thing about reacting to it. And so one of the things that I did while on one of the calls was support, not having it and not having it virtually. And so that was really hard for me, because I was so excited about it. However, I knew and it’s what you talked about earlier, that I think is really a suit on your part to have that kind of event virtually would not have conveyed the full the full experience. And so rather than turn it into a virtual one, which I saw, you know, all the virtual prize and all that stuff, and kudos to them. That was really cool. And wonderful and all that I wanted to be a part of something that was going to be in person. And so at this point, it’s not going to happen this year. My hope and the conversations that I continue to have with the licensee is that we can do it next June because June, obviously is the month to do it. So at the rate that we’re going, when we start in the fall and start planning for it, it’s going to be one amazing experience. So yes, thank you for bringing that up. Because I think that’s all part of this change that we’re experiencing right now. And let me just tell, tell you this, and I know that you already know this. And it’s interesting the way that he talks about change. Anytime that I went into change, what I knew was that eventually it was it would become normalized. So you and I having a zoom conversation right now is normalized by the fact that all of the night time talk show hosts, and all of the daytime talk shows and all of that are all being done on zoom or Skype. And so something that you and I will I’ve done six months ago because I was on zoom however far back. Now all of a sudden, everybody’s changed the zoom. And it’s normalized because you turn on the TV and you see the TV show being done in zoom format. So reality is that if people will embrace the changes that are in front of us, they’ll eventually be normalized to them. And quite frankly, they don’t go through near the pain that they think they do around the change. I mean, you still click the TV on you still get the program. It just looks a little bit different because you’ve

Unknown Speaker 38:34

Unknown Speaker 38:36
oxes of people. Yes, yes, they don’t. It’s a little less production value. But But you know, what, also I find this interesting is is normalizing it and make and

Unknown Speaker 38:49

Unknown Speaker 38:50
it accessible. Yes, I mean, that that we’re able to do this that you know, I then take this and turn it into podcasts that gets on 13 differe

Unknown Speaker 38:59
t podcasts. Exactly. So, I was just reminded in my Facebook feed 11 years ago this month, I was working for a massive consulting firm with global presence. And what was interesting was they asked me to do a virtual train the trainer and I’m like, Uh, what? Like we want you to do virtual trading to trader. So being the risk taker being the adventure being the guy who’s willing to jump out there. I was like, Okay, so what does that look like? So the short version is that I had my laptop, I had it in home. The color the The training was that maybe four o’clock in the morning because of the global time zones. So four o’clock in the morning, I have my laptop, and I am virtually delivering a train the trainer to I don’t know 35 4050 people around the world. That was my first exposure to that ever when I was done with it. I was like, so excited. I thought you know, I I entered into the space age. call centers. And now I look 11 years later, and what am I doing? I’m having a virtual conversation with you over a cup of coffee, just just the same as if we were sitt

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AG2 Digital marketing consultants Steven Tedford Robson Teles business wner Video Interview Podcast (1)

Local SEO Makes an Impact During COVID – AG2 Digital

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LGBT business owners, Steven Redford and Robson Teles of AG2 Media in New York City know how to reinvent during challenging times and thrive. During the COVID period, it is vital to really focus on your small business online local SEO strategy. Dust off your online marketing, give it a refresh with a keen focus on being found by local clients or your ideal online target audience no matter where they are located. Case in point, AG2 Media has worked with a local business for quite some time having done their overall branding and website. Yet initially the client chose not to focus on local SEO including online business citations because their business had great foot traffic and word of mouth referral. Fast forward and we all have felt the impact of COVID on business. This client laid most of their small business stars off due to a rapid sharp downturn in business. Then AG2 Media reminded them that they could get phone orders for delivery or pickup if they focus on being found if internet searches served up their business in results in a more targeted way utilizing all the features of Google My Business and more. After getting the green light the AG2 Media team swung into action. The results were quick and profound. Within just around 30 days the client was receiving a high volume of client orders a week and most where new customers. Within a short period, the client’s business was back to pre-COVID levels and they were able to bring back their staff. Had the business owner not invested into local SEO, today they would have been officially out of business. Local SEO literally saved the business. What can it do for your business?


AG2 DIGITAL Branding Marketing Local SEO Optimization Website development LGBT entrepreneur gay owned business

We believe design should be concept driven and engaging. Great design can shift the perception of your brand and is an investment in your company’s future. AG2 Digital will design a stylish, professional logo, website, business cards, branded social media platforms, in-house branded materials and custom icons. After we’re done, you’ll have a brand that inspires trust and confidence with consumers. 

AG2 Digital creates unique logo designs that relate to your customers and makes you stand out from your competitors. We’ll take you through our logo/branding discussion process to better understand your business, culture, personality, and aesthetics.


The value of your web design can either increase site traffic or drive it away. If you have a poorly designed website that just doesn’t look “right” to a visitor, it is highly unlikely they will place enough trust into your business to make a purchase. A site’s design is the reflection of business behind it, and in order to create a reputable online profile, this is definitely not an area that can be ignored.

Since your website is often where customers have their first interaction with your business, it better make a good first impression. Our goal is to engage your audience while creatively telling your story through an aesthetically pleasing and functional website with clear navigation.

Conversation Auto Transcrpit

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:06
Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro where we bring you episodes featuring LGBT entrepreneurs, professionals and community leaders. Today we are joined by the two founders and principals of a AG2 Digital, a marketing and communications firm based in New York City who rah, welcome Robson and Stephen to the OutBüro voices show.

Unknown Speaker 0:42
I just Thanks for having us.

Unknown Speaker 0:45
Absolutely. And so, because I know we are on a time limit, because right now I’m on the cheap. So we’re doing this in 40 minutes to stay in line with the Skype limitation We’re going to dive right into you guys now do know that I will be switching this to the person who’s speaking. So just know don’t know how you guys are going to want to do a little hand signals. But if you find you’re going over each other just one of you kind of pause and let the other one take the lead and just bounce back and forth as you guys like okie dokie. And so what if one of you would like to give me a little bit of background on to how ag to digital got started? And then we’ll move on from there.

Unknown Speaker 1:33
Okay, well I tend to overtalk him, so I’ll go first. I got my background in hospitality, tourism marketing. I worked for 20 years in various boutique hotels here in New York City and a sales and marketing capacity. And then, like a lot of New Yorkers and like a lot of people now at a downturn of the hospitality and the Straight, like what’s happening now? I lost my job and started an art consulting and sales and marketing company. And then that helps him talk about his start.

Unknown Speaker 2:12
Well, I, I’ve always been a designer, I graduated in graphic design back on the early 90s. And right after school, I got a job at Hallmark. I worked for Hallmark for two years. And then I moved to New York, er, word for Forbes magazine Businessweek. And my last job was with new score. And as Steve was mentioning, with the downturn of the economy in 2008, my whole department was gone. And that’s when I start doing freelance and freelance turn into the digital agency that we have now. Student I have run the agents that’s pretty much good.

Unknown Speaker 2:58
Okay, so How long has a a GQ digital been around as a company?

Unknown Speaker 3:07
We started in 2015. And as we when we first began, we were a more of a old school print graphic design company. And we quickly saw that the real business was going to be in website design. So that’s, I would say three years ago, we shifted everything to web design. And then further we went into more SEO capabilities, sem SEO PPC on that we’ve been doing for about two years now.

Unknown Speaker 3:41
Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 3:43
are you guys do all or most of the work are kind of really focused on the client acquisition and then kind of subcontract out some of that work.

Unknown Speaker 3:54
Thompson does all the design work, which is amazing. We subcontract Drag out these some of the SEO work and the social media advertising.

Unknown Speaker 4:06
Okay. Kobe’s now you are in the New York City area. Therefore, I bet you guys have seen a lot of change here in the COVID. But I guess before we get to kind of that to understand the impact of COVID on your business, let’s kind of back up and talk a little bit about as you were starting your business, what are some of the ways that you guys have, you know, found your clients and you know, that the word out about your business?

Unknown Speaker 4:41
Yeah, definitely. We started the company. And I mean, I just want to back up a little bit and say that hausa and I both were never entrepreneurs to begin with. We both were raised to go to school, get a degree and get a paycheck. And that’s coming. of how we operated for most of our careers here, and I guess you would say corporate America. But when we found ourselves in a situation where we had to create our own company, we were a little bit out of fish out of water. And our first place that we started really practicing and learning about getting clients and selling for ourselves was like the LGBT networking community, specifically, our Business Builders is a breakfast meeting that we attended. We joined the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. And that was how we got our first clients. And that still to this day, is where we’re getting the majority of our clients is the networking that we’ve been able to do within the LGBTQ community.

Unknown Speaker 5:50
Oh, well, wonderful. And I guess I’ll kind of jump in and you know, say how, you know, there is no age limitation on being an entrepreneur, you can jump into to being an entrepreneur at any point in your, in your path, you know, from, you know, 16 years old to 76 years old. And it’s very interesting as I’m interviewing people right now, like my call earlier who I’m talking with next week, she’s she’s a young entrepreneur hasn’t even graduated from college yet working on a mobile app. And earlier today was a life coach. You know, who, from the UK? And, you know, I think it’s very poignant that life and businesses throw us curveballs. And you know, it’s no longer the day, you know, like whenever my father had basically worked for two employers his his whole life and you know, but But today, the reality is, is that companies really aren’t loyal to you. They’re only loyal to you as long as their profitability allows them to be so. And you know, for whatever reason, no fault of your own, you could be let go laid off, whatever nicety words want to be utilized. And in times like this encoded where people have been, you know, sent home and not call back. And so your story kind of really, really is one to pay close attention to because you, although it wasn’t COVID at that time, it was an economic downturn. So there’s that similarity and out of it, what I’m hearing is out of necessity. You had to kind of shake the old mindset that in the end the fallacy of you know, that corporate america Erica is going to look out for you and be your mainstay. And we had to dust that off and do it for yourself. I’m sorry,

Unknown Speaker 8:09
go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 8:10
I just wanted to add to that that they’re on. today. On we have all the facility in the world with technology, you know, you have a computer in your house and you have a printer, and right there and then you have an office full at office, you can communicate with anyone anywhere in the world. And that makes it very easy to be your own business. You’re on there. So I just want to add to that.

Unknown Speaker 8:41
And we’re perfect examples of the situation. What’s happening now with COVID is exactly what happened to us. So a lot. I know a lot of people are going to be losing their jobs. A lot of people are already starting the freelance work. We’re here to say that it can be done and ironically, that’s what we Do we help other individuals or small companies brand themselves, which, and to get online, we offer all of the things that you would need the brand, the logo, the website, the SEO capabilities, we’re you know, and ironically, our business has grown more in the past two months because of the services that we offer that we’ve experienced in years. So I don’t I don’t know.

Unknown Speaker 9:37
hatred. Okay. Well, well, so I’ll kind of back that up for you in that. You know, probably that’s stemming out of people are, especially in New York, I’ve lived in New York myself, I know, you know, heavy pedestrian cities. So you’re you’re walking around, you know, you’re taking that street. Taxi or Uber or Lyft? Yes, you do do the subways as well. We’ve never I live there, but a lot of you know, when you’re living in New York for those that aren’t aware of it, yes, it’s this huge city, but it’s also small communities. Like, whenever I lived there, you know, we had some of our favorite restaurants that we would go to you know, the ones on a regular basis were within a couple of blocks the the little place with the flowers on the corner, were just two blocks away. I always heard if I can, I always love fresh flowers in the house. And, you know, so it’s a very, although, it seems overwhelming to a lot of people like oh, my gosh, how many millions of people live there? Well, you know, if you live out in Queens, you’re not going into Chelsea for your prescription or you’re not going you know from the Upper West Side, all the way out to Brooklyn for your groceries right? You have within a certain area a certain distance, it’s more like a small town. And so, as an

Unknown Speaker 11:10
example, one of our clients now is actually a florist. And because of the downturn in the COVID, he was actually gonna have to close his business. He had laid off all of his staff. He was not sure he is going to be able to pay the rent. And he is also a member of one of our networking groups. So we met with him and we, you know, we had been talking about SEO for months years with him. So he finally agreed to do it. And his business after one month of local SEO, working with his Google My Business platform, getting him signed up with local listings. He was able to he’s his business is now where it was before. The Coronavirus

Unknown Speaker 11:58
issue. credible. He’s

Unknown Speaker 12:02
in one month, he has 13,000 new searches. And majority of that is new, new people looking at his website. In the past couple weeks, he was telling me 65 new phone calls most of those new clients. So he’s, if not, he’s thinking about having to rehire, um, and here he was thinking he had to close. Wow, what a great, what a

Unknown Speaker 12:28
great story. And you know how true because you know, when you are no matter where you are in the country or the world, I mean, taking that right there for an example in an area where possibly even those new customers were within a certain distance, right, because they looked online for a local florists. If your competitors aren’t online, if your competitors are not optimized, then you taking those extra steps to Ensure that your website is optimized, you have great content, but especially for those kinds of businesses where you’re ensuring that you are showing up in the Google Maps and getting as many what’s called business citations. A business citation is a listing on a local service. So for an example, LGBT businesses out there you can add your business to our bureau comm that is called a business citation. And that also helps your overall business website ranking, move up and it helps especially when you have your full address. When Google sees that you are on a, you know, X number of sites with a business citation listing not only are you on their record, but when they see that you are also on all these other websites. Yo you know whatever other business site listings there are, that’s going to further give power give Google says, Oh, yes, that is a business it is because I see all of these listings on all these other various websites. And so therefore, I’m going to increase now i’m also pulling that together with local content. So blogs and so forth, having a Facebook page with rankings there. So So let’s talk about since that is a recent customer, and and as I understand it, you’ve been trying to work with that person. And you’ve been cultivating that client for quite some time, correct?

Unknown Speaker 14:43
Yes. And I think maybe perhaps you can talk about the process that we went through with them on the branding process and the process that we go through and how he took him

Unknown Speaker 14:54
from the logo to now being very

Unknown Speaker 14:57
successful. Yeah. left row darlin came to us out say four or five years ago, he was one of our of our first clients. He came to watch because he was with Brenda, he was changing the pricing. It was good branding. And through that we created a new logo, we created a new website for him new content, social media platform, all the collateral material for the store as well. Or in we read it in such a way that it matched the interior of his store. He got an architect and did his store with the columns that he wanted with all the image that he wanted inside the pattern of the wood. And from that I do buy all the creative elements and in the website in the store, they are a perfect match. And then once we did that, that’s when we came with the idea of enhances business with SEO, but he wasn’t so well at the time and everything was working so perfectly. That, you know, we took a little leap to get him to do SEO. So as Steve was mentioned, just recently, he switched to SEO as well. But he has been a client of ours for for many, many years. And, you know, that’s how Frodo and cat came to us.

Unknown Speaker 16:19
I think he’s, you know, he’s obviously benefiting from the fact that internet use is up by 70% since everyone started staying at home, and data usage on your phone is up by 47%. And I was looking at this statistic, the, you know, when someone buys a product at a store, and then goes and picks it up, like you would do at Home Depot or any other store like that, that kind of purchase is 554%. So, you’ve just got to be online, and you get I think that’s the most important thing. Is that is being have a strong digital presence is the is the way you’re going to succeed now

Unknown Speaker 17:08
I couldn’t agree more and so part of the heart of the lesson though here too, for the entrepreneur is you have to be online and for the entrepreneurs out there, take a look at your current and past client base if you have some and revisit them, especially if your services will enable them to as a as a business enable them to thrive better in this environment. If you do do marketing and web service and web development and local local SEO and so forth. You are perfect you are crying. If you are if you are not going back to clients These folks have here. If you have if you’re not going back to clients who said no to you over and over again for the last several years, now is a time where they potentially will say yes. Because look at this as a case in point right here as to how valuable that is. Because they’re, you know, being in New York again, getting back to that foot traffic that florists was, was doing great had a beautiful shop and that’s what gets those people who are walking by on the street front to walk in, right. But and they had the website but they weren’t optimized. They didn’t at that point get to see the need back several years ago to invest that additional funds and taking it to the to the next level. And, and that’s okay. Because Because now look at what has been able to be to be accomplished.

Unknown Speaker 18:56
So another thing another thing that

Unknown Speaker 19:00
People in business have to think about is your presence online, it is extremely important. Because your presence online is going to give you reviews. And over 90% of people who shop online, look at reviews, if you have less than 4.0 they move away from you immediately. So you have to have a presence not only online, but you have to have you have to keep that up in order to have good reviews.

Unknown Speaker 19:33
So you know and eat anywhere at this point in your city. There’s nothing we’ve been we’ve been restaurant deprived for so long, but anyway, yeah, it’s true. I you know, when the restaurants were open, and we had our choice, you know, anything less than a 4.3 or, you know, below I just wouldn’t go. You know, Nancy Pelosi said that all roads lead to Russia, right? In my case, I make, I’m changing A little bit of all roads lead to your website and your Google reviews. And, you know, the the, you know, the Google is offering an incredible free product. Um, you know, Google My Business, it’s such a strong platform now. And just downloading photos. If you’ve got 20 or 30 photos, you’re already beating your competition. And you’re going to get much more hits. Google loves photos on your Google My Business by putting your business address in the footer of your website, so that Google can verify the website address to your Google My Business. Again, you’re going to increase your search capacity, little things like that having your hours, nine to five, Monday through Friday on your Google My Business platform, immediately increases. Little things you can do for free. goes there. They want you they want you to spend more more time on the internet. So they’re gonna try to keep you there.

Unknown Speaker 21:04
Right, and they’re trying to be relevant. They’re trying to be the most relevant search results out there. And so you know, as Steven is indicating, the more information that you provide, you’re making it easy for Google to serve up your business to its searchers. And therefore, the more the more information you have, the better. So I’m going to give you one tip, and it’s the reason why we use search. Google for LGBTQ aren’t for LGBT entrepreneur, LGBT professional, or LGBT employer ratings or LGBT reviews LGBT employer reviews, why out Bureau is either number one or on the first page. So here is a tip for you when you are uploading those images. Don’t just take a photo and go Upload. Because if you do Guess what? The image file name the dot JPG file name on that is going to be something like image 300178 dot jpg. Well, what the hell does that mean? It means nothing. So if you can google this how to search engine optimize your photos. So what I do is every single image on my website of our bureau comm every single image is keyword optimized in the file name itself. So it will say something to the effect of out Bureau, dash, LGBT entrepreneurs, corporate equality employee raise LGB, our gay, lesbian, transgender, queer online community dot jpg, right. So all of those key words are stub In the dot jpg, file name, or PNG file, you know, file name, and so forth. So when you get back to your website, there’s additional things you can do there. And that’s I will leave it to these great folks to inform you, I don’t want to take away all those secrets. However, you can Google it, it’s not that much of a secret. But just so that all of you are aware less than 1%, less than 1% of the websites that are on the internet right now. Do that. So if you just do that you are already promoting yourself up to the 1% category. Now, when you upload those images to your Google My Business Page with all of the other information, those keywords on your electronic file name of your images are also going to help Google knows exactly what your business is about, because now it’ll say New York, Chelsea Flower Shop dot jpg, not just image 3.1707. So take that tip and run with it. And when you need additional help on furthering it, make sure you you seek some professionals. You know what you don’t do your own taxes, do you? Probably not. most business owners don’t do their own finances or many other tasks. So it’s just like that when you’re looking at hiring professionals to help you stand out on the internet with your local searches and wider. It’s best to hire a professional who does this all the time.

Unknown Speaker 24:38
Because Google will change it. Once it once you think you’ve got it. It will change. There’s this new thing. Have you heard of bird I guess you’ve heard bird. I don’t even know what it stands for. But Google is now getting away from keywords. That’s why you might want to if you want to know why you’re being told to write blogs and do podcasts have videos. It’s because Google likes big chunks of information now. And so if you can write, copy and write blogs in a conversational tone that Google can understand, because now Google is moving to more voice searches, so Google can’t just look for keywords, they want a big chunk of information. And that’s why content marketing blogging is so important. ads.

Unknown Speaker 25:29
And that would those images are just one piece of the of the huge puzzle, right? But that’s one thing that again, 99% of websites don’t do. And there’s an easy way to check that. By the way, if you go to your own website, just hover over an image and right click it, you’re going to see the alt what’s called the alt, the title and the alt text. And again, google google image website image optimization and if Go to right clicking download, you’re going to see what that image is. It is named. So although Google you are right is moving away from the amount of emphasis that they put on keyword past that that image optimization is a huge gaping open opportunity where the vast majority of people don’t don’t pay attention to. So

Unknown Speaker 26:29
I’m doing this just to illustrate a service that we have for free. If anyone wants to know more details about their website and how it is running, and they go to our website, and we offer free reports on local SEO and SEO, all they have to do is type the domain of their website and they will have a report landing low exactly what you’re saying us today you have miss a special All images, if the website is running slow if they don’t have the right content, if they have broken links, all that will be on a report. And we can talk to them and help them out to clear that out so they can take the report with them and do themselves wherever they need to argue for.

Unknown Speaker 27:22
You don’t have to, in order to get that do they fill out like a contact form providing either information? No, no, no, no, they just type

Unknown Speaker 27:29
their domain and the report comes up to them. It’s pretty much that simple. Yeah. Hello. Wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 27:38
And I will point out that we are running some private packages. So everything from branding website and SEO is all on a page called ag to slash packages. So check it out. Good prices.

Unknown Speaker 27:57
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for that. So, um, you know, being entrepreneurs is a difficult journey. Right? You know, you’ve got your ups and your downs, you know,

Unknown Speaker 28:10
it is it is it is very difficult but it is very rewarding, you know, you, you help people out people come to us with a need and deliver what they want. We sit them grow, we sit our business grow, we deliver exactly what they want. We do research and our business, we come up with strategy, we do implementation, and at the end, it is it is a 360 degree circle of just enjoyment. That is Bob Santa Rosa, you’re there because in kind of work that you do, we find bumps in the road, but at the end of the day, it is extremely rewarding. And it is very rewarding to work with the gay community as well, just getting back to people who gave to us.

Unknown Speaker 28:54
Much. So and you know, I think Love as an entrepreneur, I love that the branding and the building thing, you know, getting the word out, and that’s what this is really about. You know, because if you have a business, let’s say you’re, you’re, you’re a lawyer. Well, if no one knows that you exist, if they can’t find you on, you know, there’s multiple ways in which a lawyer should be marketing themselves. But you could say, Oh, I went to law school and I’m opening my own practice. And you rent an office and you go and you sit in the office all day. Well, if you’re not doing marketing, guess what? You’re not going to get any clients. I mean, because you got to get those clients in the door somehow and mountain word of mouth will get you so far, but there has to be that constant, you know, education and awareness out there. And as you guys have pointed out, and made it very clear, you know, having an online presence because no one goes to the Yellow Pages, you know, anymore, do they? I don’t know why they make them Yeah, and part

Unknown Speaker 30:00
of our implementation is the outreach as well. Once your website is done, dusted, implemented, we go further by, you know, get in contact with all the clients have metrics finish the job and communicated that there is a new website after there are new service up. And we do that in print format. And we can do digitally as well. Whatever is the best suit for the client. Right now. We are working with a lawyer we are just in a final phase of her work. And she wanted to do the outreach by print which we are doing, as opposed to digital is she says that has a little bit more of a personal touch to get a card and to get a brochure. So we are doing that but we do.

Unknown Speaker 30:53
Yeah, and I will have another attorney we’re working on. We work with a lot of law firms and financial companies and We started with SEO legal about six months ago. And they weren’t really ranking they were ranking on the 11th page of Google for a lot of the services that they provide immigration law, Bitcoin and real estate law. They’re now on the first page of Google after six months for immigration, and the real estate. Yeah, so it definitely works. And, you know, I just want to encourage anyone out there that’s maybe going to lose their job or one thinking of going out on their own is starting off freelance or a small company. We’ve just seen so many success stories. SEO is one of those words it’s hard to explain. It’s hard to sell actually, but once you see the results, um, it’s it’s it’s such a it’s such a good feeling to see and to watch someone business grow and to be able to say, Yeah, I told you so.

Unknown Speaker 31:58
Yeah, in a good way.

Unknown Speaker 32:01
Yes, there, there’s whenever I’m working on on things for myself, it’s like, oh, I’m going after these keywords, I’m expanding my, my vocabulary on what I’m going after. And it’s like I’m going after this. And then after, you know, a set amount of time and set amount of work and then seeing the result, like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then seeing the traffic come in, you know, because of that. And I can imagine how much how rewarding it is for you because you get to do that on a regular basis with your clients, and help them and guide them through all of the critical, critical things to take action on and thing and you begin to see those results. To me, that’s really I enjoy it for myself. And I’ve done a little bit of this work in the past for past clients, but like I needed a focus on my own business for a while, do definitely appreciate and value what you do. And again for whether you’re looking at starting a new business or you currently have a business and would would like to take your game up into the next level, you know, you don’t extract your own teeth, you go to a professional, hopefully you don’t, you don’t have to file for divorce but if you do, who do you use a professional divorce attorney. So whenever you are looking at taking your business to the next level, or launching your business, you know you have to focus in on on your online marketing that is that it is not optional. any longer. It is a absolute must have you also, it is no longer optional to focus on localization. If you do serve a local community and even if you’re national, you still want to turn get, you know, major metropolitan areas, you still need to localize, even if you’re a national company. So hire, hire folks like, ag to write here and support your local support your other LGBT businesses. And as you heard, they have some special offers here in the month of cry. We have just a few more moments here. So if I could, if you guys could share a little bit about how you guys kind of handle the stress, what do you guys do to kind of let go and relax? I personally like to go in a lot of walking, hiking. What do you guys like to do?

Unknown Speaker 34:41
I play tennis.

Unknown Speaker 34:44
I play before co but I was playing once a week or so difficult in New York. But I do play tennis. I bought a like recently to try to get a little more exercise in my office. My gym is closed. And so no more yoga classes. I’m doing yoga on YouTube, yoga with Adrian, check it out.

Unknown Speaker 35:08
Yeah. Adrian gray. How about you Rapson?

Unknown Speaker 35:12
Yeah. You know, I am privileged to live in New York City as I am the law. I love the arts. I go to the museum constantly I go to openings. I’m 30. So a lot out. And I like to travel. We were We were just in cut to hammer a one week prior to the closing of the outwards, which was, I still have a friend on Peru. She lives in Germany, and she has been there like for four months. So I love to travel as well. So in New York City, is a city that you can do so much on. So in addition to movies and all the things that the city has to offer. Right, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 35:58
Well, well. Good to hear that you guys have some balance in your life. I know it’s can be challenging as a small business owner and working with other entrepreneurs, you have deadlines and what things done yesterday, what’s the makeup finally get get off the or get off the boat and make a decision, right? It’s like, Oh, I want this done yesterday, right? So definitely good. You guys have your your hobbies and things to focus on what balances you. So again, that is a G to Why thank you guys so much for taking time out of the day today to chat with us and especially sharing your success story with the local florist. I think that’s very a story that is right on point for today. So I’m sure folks will be very interested in hearing that and looking at that as inspiration. So thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. Today this is Dennis belko. Without bureau voices you can find this episode and others at out bureau comm that is owed and that has now changed to episodes of at the top. And if you are viewing this on YouTube, please go ahead and hit that subscribe button down below. Also be sure to check it out on the different podcasting websites such as Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, I Heart Radio and about 10 others. You can take this on the go. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye bye.

Unknown Speaker 37:40
Thank you

_Overcoming Addiction Depression Anxiety with David Clive Price LGBT Author Coach Professional Consultant Business Owner Video Interview Podcast

Overcoming Addiction, Depression, or Anxiety with David Clive Price

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Be a Guest or Recommend a Guest

David Clive Price is an out LGBT entrepreneur mental wellbeing life coach, author and so much more. David has traveled the globe and lived in several countries which have given him a keen perspective on multiculturalism and leadership styles within different cultural contexts. David like so many, particularly persons in the LGBT community, struggled with coming to terms with family and society messaging of norms versus his authentic self. Despite outward signs of success, he like many struggled with internally owning his own narrative and views which lead to depression and anxiety. Over time David learned to reframe the past messages or programs that led to the substance abuse overcome. Through his books and personal mental wellbeing, David has transformed his life into supporting others on their own journey of working through addictions, depression, anxiety, and other issues that hold you back from living a full, thriving authentic and healthy life.

David on OutBüro >

David Clive Price LGBT Author Hidden Demons LGBT Entrepreneur Mental Wellbeing Coach Overcoming addiction

Hidden Demons

David is well known for his clarity of analysis and approach, drawing on his experience and passion for people and cultures all over the world. He brings a strong comparative mindset to the challenges of his clients, enabling them to overcome their doubts and fears and to discover their true inner selves. Combining ancient healing practices such as the Korean art of nunchi (gauging other people’s feelings) with a holistic approach to self-leadership, David developed the Hidden Demons Method™: Discover Your Superpower. With this method he helps clients look within themselves and discover their true inner voice, overcoming their Hidden Demons of anxiety, addiction, and fear of failure. He then sets them on a course to higher performance, fulfillment, and authenticity. This superpower framework has been adopted by individuals, teams, and institutions all over the world and can be applied in any business or start-up. David is a living example of his principle of Daring to Dream. He coaches, teaches mental, and spiritual healing, speaks, motivates, and lives his global mission of helping others to discover their true selves.

Now more than ever we need a guide on how to survive not only with our mental and emotional health intact, but also strengthened, full of resourcefulness and agility, ready to combat our Hidden Demons. Chaos strikes and suddenly we realize we are more fragile than we thought — more exposed, unsafe, less in control. It is easy to invoke resilience. However, resilience is in short supply for many people who cannot quite understand what has hit them, either financially or in the loss of their usual bonds and customs. We need guides on how we can survive not only with our mental and emotional wellbeing intact, but also strengthened, full of resourcefulness and agility.

How to Overcome Fear, Anxiety and Addiction in Uncertain Times

Now more than ever we need a guide on how to survive not only with our mental and emotional health intact, but also strengthened, full of resourcefulness and agility, ready to combat our Hidden Demons.

Throughout this course and its six modules, David shows that the path to rediscovering your life and purpose starts with tiny steps. It begins with getting yourself up off the floor (almost literally in his case). It continues in the days and weeks ahead as you seek to discover what your inner voices are telling you about your Hidden Demons, about your past, about social conventions, about your true talents – and whether you are really listening. More often than not, it’s two steps forward and one step back. Nothing can be achieved in a day, but everyone has a path to their true self and calling. It won’t come from social media. It won’t come from following movements and demagogues. It can come from the simplest of journeys, even imaginatively – to a college campus, to a forest for a walk, to the seaside, or to an unfamiliar city. But first of all you have to get to the starting point. That for many people is the most difficult step.

6 Life Strategies to Discover Your Superpower

Learn the Six Life Strategies that David has developed to keep the mindset, habits and perspective needed to stay centered, focused, healthy, and strong throughout this and future crises.

David’s own life has not always been easy, and he has experienced constant challenges along the way, both as a gay man and as a relapsing alcoholic. However, he transparently shares in every section of his book and course what his “Hidden Demons” were ⎯ and as you follow along, you will discover that the Hidden Demons method™ is not only about fear, addictions and bringing hope and comfort in the darkness. It is so much more; it is a flashlight we all need on our journey to awaken our true greatness.

About David Clive Price, Ph.D.

Born in South London to Welsh parents, David graduated from Cambridge University with a Ph.D. in Renaissance History, won a British Academy fellowship to lecture at Bologna University, and wrote his first books — including his first novel — when living as a farmer-translator in Tuscany. He then moved to Japan and Hong Kong to study Asian cultures while taking up his first professional position at the Economist Intelligence Unit. This was followed by five years as the chief speechwriter for Asia for the HSBC Group during the return of Hong Kong to China. In parallel with his professional career, he continued to develop a passion for the people, religions and cultures of the world, which was reflected in a series of travel books including a study of Buddhism and spiritual beliefs in Asian daily life.

His successful track record in high-level communications for global CEOs, senior leaders, and politicians, which he carried forward in his coaching and writing consultancy on leaving HSBC, gave him a special insight into the challenges of high performance and behavioral change. These insights now inform his work with people of many different backgrounds as they seek to move forward and overcome the stress, burnout, and anxiety they are facing in their personal and professional lives. Speaking English, French, German, Italian and Cantonese, and having lived and worked in numerous countries, Dr. David Clive Price’s multicultural experience informs all his executive coaching, as well as his bestselling books Bamboo Strong with Foreword by Dr.Marshall Goldsmith, and the upcoming Hidden Demons: How to Overcome Fear, Anxiety, and Addiction in Uncertain Times.

Conversation Auto Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:02

Unknown Speaker 0:05
Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro your website for LGBT professional and entrepreneurial endeavors. You are listening to this week’s episode of our new podcast again where we bring you interesting, lively, and sometimes hopefully entertaining conversations with LGBT entrepreneurs and professionals as well as community leaders spanning the globe. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you are watching this on YouTube, take a few moments and subscribe right now hit that subscribe button as well as the bell that will ensure that you are notified as soon as new episodes come available. Also, you’re able to subscribe. Follow us on in places such as Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify I Heart Radio and about 10 other podcasts so that you can listen to out your voices on the go at the gym, in your car on your way to work doing house chores line on the beaches, so much more tuned in with every episode to out your voices. And today we are very happy to have David Clive Price. He is an author, a mental health specialist, and an all-around guru on building change and leadership into your life. Thank you so much for joining us today. David. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here Dennis. Wonderful, wonderful and you are hailing from across the pond as from the UK, correct?

Unknown Speaker 1:46
Yes. From Blighty, as they called it, during the war they called it Blighty, so old Blighty

Unknown Speaker 1:56
the United Kingdom Yes,

Unknown Speaker 1:58
wonderful land. For our viewers and listeners, what area of the UK Are you coming from?

Unknown Speaker 2:03
I’m coming from speaking from London. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 2:07
yes. Wonderful and gorgeous city. So, David, why don’t we kind of jump in to you giving us a bit of your background, which is very rich and diverse. And of course we strive for data an hour, I know you could probably speak for six or more hours with as much as going on, and you’re interesting books. But let’s give a little overview as to your background. And then we’ll lead into kind of a chronological step up from back then through your current projects.

Unknown Speaker 2:43
Sounds great, well, that’d be playing it straight in and say that I help entrepreneurs and LGBTQ professionals to overcome mental health challenges, such as fear, anxiety and addiction, so that they can face their Hidden demons and create a more fulfilled life and abundant business. So I’m the author of bamboo strong cultural intelligence secrets to succeed in the new global economy. and, more recently, the age of pluralism, global intelligence for emerging leaders. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 3:23
just a little bit. Tell us just a little bit about the the bamboo strong. That’s an interesting title.

Unknown Speaker 3:31
Yeah, well, as the title suggests, it’s to do with, with bending in the wind, if you like, metaphorically, strong, but also resisted, strong, but flexible and agile. And that is the central thesis of the book really, which is based on my own travels and experiences around the world, and particularly in Asia Pacific, but also you In the States and Europe, in South America, with different countries and cultures and backgrounds dealing with people of difference of our differences, in other words,

Unknown Speaker 4:13
and the book

Unknown Speaker 4:16
has as its framework, what’s called the cultural intelligence or CQ model, a four part model to help you relate with, make relationships with, negotiate with, understand the differences of and create emotional intelligence for dealing with people of many backgrounds and cultures, races, generations and creeds. So the book goes on the journey through through my own life experiences by using this CPU model.

Unknown Speaker 4:54
Okay, well that certainly, and all the times but especially in today’s since times here in the United States with racial tensions and so forth. I’m sure that your book would be bamboo strong would be an excellent read for for anyone, but particularly those in whatever leadership positions you might find yourself and whether that’s leadership in an organization via an employer or even a community nonprofit sounds like a really good read, especially now in today’s time.

Unknown Speaker 5:30
Yes, we’re dealing with a great deal of tension around diversity and inclusion. We have maybe a lot of celebration of diversity, as we’ve had this month for gay pride, of course, but not so much necessarily of for inclusion. That’s both in society at large and in companies and corporations, etc. So there is a great The more education needed on the diversity and inclusion front, which this book tends to help with. And the follow up book which is called the age of pluralism, global intelligence for emerging leaders. So, those are in the back the younger generations to again with its own framework for dealing with differences personal, cultural, generational. So that is the background to my sorry, say, multi multiracial multicultural work and at the same time that the kind of qualities and capabilities are required for but working together well with people have many different backgrounds are similar to Those that we need in mental health challenges, which are also. So current and particularly now with the global pandemic, increasingly currents and increasing pandemic of mental health issues of all kinds. So,

Unknown Speaker 7:23
agility, looking within

Unknown Speaker 7:28
discovering inner resources, empathy, emotional intelligence, these are the kind of leadership issues and personal issues that that my books and my frameworks address.

Unknown Speaker 7:44
Okay, and just for audience, I can’t believe we didn’t escape. You’re also if I’m not mistaken. Psychologists

Unknown Speaker 7:52
know, I’m also qualified practitioner, as a psychologist. Now I’m a I’m a PhD. I saw the doctor

Unknown Speaker 7:59
guide Yeah, sorry, my mistake without I don’t have my glasses on to look at my notes.

Unknown Speaker 8:08
Okay, but definitely, definitely interesting topics and what is your PhD in?

Unknown Speaker 8:16
It’s in Renaissance history actually. Wow. So I took a great interest in history at college and at school indeed and then Cambridge I studied the Renaissance and actually Renaissance music and and then disappear from courts and country houses of idioms. Initially sauce. That’s what kicked off my interest and then I had a fellowship on the British Academy to go over to Italy.

Unknown Speaker 8:52

Unknown Speaker 8:53
I studied the northern Italian Renaissance courts. Wow for one, two years. At

Unknown Speaker 9:02
a beautiful period, but I would not want to live in that era. Just, you know, being being obviously also a gay person assuming that I grew up in a gay person then as well. But what’s what’s interesting though, is you know, from your your PhD in history looking at that, you know, and your, your travels in and around you, you live in so many places around the world, in in Asia and Africa, us and so forth. And, you know, being able to take a look at a historical and a cultural perspective because I firmly believe that for leaders and for you as an individual to really look forward, you also have to be able to look in the past and it’s not dwell on the past, but he is acknowledge the past right? So just like if you’re wanting to make changes in your own life, changes in your behaviors, you have to be able to acknowledge the past because if you just ignore it, and you have no no reference for it, when it comes to your own personal issues, then you’re less likely to successfully overcome it because you haven’t dealt with it properly. Yes, and when it comes to a business practice, being able to fully lead and drive new products and services, you know, like new product developments, one of the other guests. Two weeks ago, we talked about how, how important it is to be able to understand for example, the adoption of technologies, new products and services, and to to understand how your new product or service might be adopted today, you know, we might, it might not take us today. 10 years to a gap, for example, as it did from black and white television to colored television. And of course now, we all have basically one sitting here. You know, whatever I grew up, we had the big black huge console with the built in huge fingers. I mean, it was a piece of furniture, right? Yeah. Yeah. And and here we are, and same, you know, with you as well, you know, back back then that television, you had one TV per household, it was a coveted item. Everyone sat around it. Well, now everyone just walks around basically TV on their phone. And and so, you know, that that but being able to look at the past and say, you know, how did cultures or how did individuals consumers or or businesses adapt to this is that is a very strong point in Understanding how you can move forward when there are some gaps. But it definitely relates to your mental. Yes. mental challenges and mental mental opportunities. Yeah, looking,

Unknown Speaker 12:15
looking into your past Yes. or looking into analyzing the stories that you tell yourself. That’s one of the lead strategies in hidden demons, which is, you know, we have, some of them are conscious stories, but many of them are unconscious stories they may lay hidden within us that we’re not entirely aware of, and they may in some curious way still dictate our behavior and perhaps our mental health challenges as well. And so being able to analyze the stories or look within yourself for the stories, I think these are big and that relates more generally on the on the widest Scale to being able to look at our history to be able to look at the history of other cultures and have other people put to putting things in context. And to have more than one perspective in mind at the same time is Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 13:18
so that, you know, I heard I heard some other people perhaps this is try to explain as I understand it, and perhaps it’s explaining exactly what you said in a slightly different way. But I’d love to hear from you if it’s if it’s this similar kind of concept. And through some of the the work that I’ve done, I’ve heard it called, they termed it as your programming, right, having a track seven green, conscious and unconscious memory as programming. And so, you know, for example, if you grew up with a parent who from an early He gave you the signals that you were not worthy you are not going to amount to anything via verbal and or just through their actions through not paying attention to you through not helping you with your schoolwork. And then well, you know, I knew you weren’t going to do well in that. So why bother? Those are approved that’s laying down programming within the brain that says, I’m not worth spending time with. I’m not good at anything. And, and so it can affect how then you see the world view and interpret and interact with the world today.

Unknown Speaker 14:44
Yeah, and of course,

Unknown Speaker 14:46
and so

Unknown Speaker 14:49
there’s ways so does your book in modern demons goes into ways to kind of rewrite those stories or rewrite those programs and you

Unknown Speaker 15:00
goes very much into how we can use those stories to move forward. And of course, for LGBTQ people, often the coming out story is the biggest story of all. And you know, all the what to say the the influx of emotions and secrecy and shame, perhaps that goes before coming out, especially to your family. And these can have reverberations throughout your life unless you’re aware of them. And of course, we can address these demons by becoming aware of them and that means looking at them. sounds simple, but it’s not so simple in reality, Ray’s story stories.

Unknown Speaker 15:56
Yeah. Well because you know, it is such a struggle that is partly due to the underlying reasoning why so many years study after study shows that some of the some of these studies I have written about some of them, I’ve just not gotten around to but they’re out there. So do Google them folks, is you know, study after study shows that LGBT you persons suffer from higher levels or more frequent levels of anxiety, depression, more a higher attempts of suicide. There’s just there’s lots of studies in and around the LGBTQ mental

Unknown Speaker 16:38
mental health. Yeah, and that

Unknown Speaker 16:40
and that I think goes a lot into you know, the rejections the bat because of religion, different religions around the world, who, you know, preach and or whatever they call it. I mean, I know I don’t misprint mistake for other religions and cultures. But you know, I grew up in a very fundamentalist right wing environment myself. To this day. My own father is extremely right wing I can’t even say the word community without him beginning his, quote scripture. So and and I know what that is what part of that is done for me and I’m not going to get into the whole story. I’ve been told I could write books about my youth and teenage years, not off centered around me but it all centered around religion and how it was used in a very negative way. And so so I really get that’s one thing why this really stuck out to me because I personally know how those stories you know, sometimes you’ll find or antidote to flee that LGBT people work, you know, x men You know, x times harder, x times more, it’s like we’re always trying to prove ourselves. So yes,

Unknown Speaker 18:07
exactly. And

Unknown Speaker 18:08
I think is trying to overcome those stories overcome those programming. But then there’s also a string of self destruction. also kind of going into those programs or stories as you call them. And it’s like, well, if I’m not worthy, why bother? Why shouldn’t I just drink myself into a stupor every night? No one cares, right? I mean, that’s what does the programming that gets put into your mind if I’m not worthy enough for my own family from my own parents love and my own father’s acceptance in my own mother’s acceptance, or my own siblings acceptance then then why should I even exist, so who cares I’ll just go out and party every night and have fun because I’m not going to live anyways. Because you know, all those negative kind of stories come in and can lead to a life and Like style of kind of nonchalant, nonchalant pneus yet, yet, what’s interesting is the dualism, I work Work, Work work, you know, I, when I say I, you know, putting this in framework of the listener is, you know, you work, work, work, work work to try to prove yourself, but then also have these destructive behaviors kind of happening simultaneously. So, if I could do a chunk about those,

Unknown Speaker 19:27
yeah, I mean, I maybe had a less less than tolerant family and mother and father. But there probably was something there that particularly for my father that was always kind of in the background, even when I came out and he more or less accepted it and my mother more or less accepted it, etc, etc. But there’s just one little example is the school play. I was playing Hamlet course as a little achiever to at school. So I had to be, you know, handwritten Could school play and as kind of honor that last night and the parents came along and I was quite pleased with myself, I thought it went well. And I went up to the balcony later to see them and expected them to say, David, that was terrific. You know, we really enjoyed it. I know how they got peak, they more or less got up and said, I think it’s time now to go to the car. And I realized that that I didn’t realize then but later on thinking about it, it’s because they thought that confirm certain tendencies. This is before I came out to be fair, you know, confirm certain tendencies. And it’s, you know, it’s, you’re always achieving a lot of people a lot of LGBTQ people continue to achieve achieve achieve throughout their lives and always have a slight sense of they’re not quite good enough, which is what I explore in the book as well. But however much you do, whatever success you have, there’s something not quite right. And I have clients in my local LGBT few Leaders Program now who do talk about this kind of underlying our knees but needing to refine that purpose. And and listening to those stories. As I said earlier, that’s one of the techniques that we use to go deeper down. And then living in the present too. That’s another big strategy that we’re always projecting. unease or dissatisfaction onto the future or will it will it? Will it realize my fears that I had when I was a child or when I was a adolescent boy, young man will the next 10 year will the next five When will something go wrong? Even when we’ve got you know everything going for us will something go wrong?

Unknown Speaker 22:08
Which is

Unknown Speaker 22:12
things that we have to deal with and come out on the other side off.

Unknown Speaker 22:18
Personally I struggled with alcoholism, depression, anxiety, and not constantly I achieved in between, you know, I was speechwriter for one for one of the world’s largest banks. I wrote several travel books about different countries around the world a show etc.

Unknown Speaker 22:42
And I you know, I then

Unknown Speaker 22:46
always rebounding to alcohol

Unknown Speaker 22:50
even though I found my life’s true love, you know, we call so you know, there’s always a sort of underlying, eventually I got through it. And now I’m a reasonably successful entrepreneur life coach, but you know, you have to go through certain phases unfortunately as a gay man or at least be aware of them as an LGBTQ person or at least be aware of them because they are there to trip you up and that’s why the book is called hidden demons how to overcome fear and anxiety and addiction to thrive in uncertain times. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 23:29
well in and this you know, for for those listening is and watching is it’s this is about dealing with your your past and helping to frame that and put perspective around it. You can’t change your past, but you can change the way you view it. That’s your choice. Okay, you can’t, you can’t change what people have said to you and done to you. However, what you can Choose is how you react and respond to that. Because you have, it’s you who control you. Right? Yeah. If someone makes you angry, No, they didn’t. You made yourself angry. You chose to take that reaction and take that response. If someone disrespected, you know, you chose to take it that way. It’s all in your own choices right here has nothing to do with the other person. They’re going on. They’re going about their lives. If you know if you happen to be like me, and even as of two Christmases ago, I mean, it was chaotic. You know, I my father was asking about me moving further south, which was to Fort Lauderdale. Oh, well, why are you moving Being down there. And you know, I’ve learned throughout the years to avoid key words that would set him into his religious tirades. And finally, but he has learned keep pressing Dennis with question and question and question and question until I hear the question or until I hear the the the trigger and then I get to go off and I can justify it and I can be my religious asshole. So, well. Do you know what that particular Christmas was? I stopped reacting. I simply put my finger is from his nose and I said stop. You stop. I’m a 15 year old man and I will not tolerate it any longer. It’s your choice. You will not you will not get the upset, but I will not tolerate it. We chose to say that we are going to respect each other. And that means if you ask me a question you have to be adult enough to leave Listen to the answer. And so that was a big step for me. Yeah. And you know, I’ve always have been the person who pushed and asked questions and questions and yeah, we’ve always as I like to say we’ve always had great pleasantry conversations pleasantries, just talking about the little niceties, gardening, housework and so forth, but when it comes to, and his job and all of that, but really not about life, you know, and, and that’s unfortunate, but you know, you can’t change other people. You have to be able to take your life and control you. Right. Sometimes you have to put boundaries on other people, because they they purposely try to poke and prod, which is what he did for years. Yeah. Kind of childish. But

Unknown Speaker 26:56

Unknown Speaker 26:58
but you’re right you control you I think that’s very right. Yeah. You control you

Unknown Speaker 27:05
laterally. Yes. Yes. You You control you,

Unknown Speaker 27:08
you are not controlled by the outside forces, whatever they are external forces you control you. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 27:18
Yeah. And so when when you then utilize books like these, and all of them sound like incredible worthy reads is you’re then able to put those into perspective and put your own history to perspective and say, Alright, and you know, the past is the past you can’t change it. You can’t change the way you reacted and responded based on those triggers that were very ingrained that programming that was very ingrained. But what you can do is you can change the way you react, you know, it’s just like, just like stopping drink, or for pay out. I will share something have you guys here? Okay, so if you’ve even just listened to these, you know, about three years ago, I had a divorce and a 17 year relationship Well, me being me, because I’ve had a two, a NINE and a 17 year relationship. So I’ve been in relationships like 98% of mine and not always good. I would stay in them for all kinds of reasons. convenience. Just, I would stay in bad relationships. But, so just three and a half months after being out of the will, three and a half months of being on my own living on my own. What does dentists do? Next? prep basically next guy that comes along, man, within a month, we’re living together. I mean, this is as my friends like to say. That is yours, that is u haul packing. lesbians. You know, as soon as you start dating someone, you’re like, boom, boom, boom, you know, you’re picking out the chick next trying to patterns. like omg. Well, this this fella smokes cigarettes. I’ve never smoked cigarettes in my life. outside of here, there’s, you know, one or two, you know, kind of a thing now and then like once a year kind of thing. And this guy smokes, regularly, constantly, almost every day says he’s going to stop. But, you know, as we started to go out, he would, you know, pass me a cigarette, and say, Okay, and then another and then another. Then as I started to stay at his house, he began to leave two or three a day for me. Then it became five or six, then it became half a pack. Within within about three month period, I went from not smoking basically my entire life to smoke today, and it took me almost two years. And finally, one day, I just had to say, Stop. What the f are you doing? Hmm. And and to be honest, it’s turned off other guys that I was interested in. Yeah. And it’s like, if for nothing else I need to stop because of that, right. But it was that little bit of, I guess a little bit of social programming that happened in a very short time period. So when you now is

Unknown Speaker 30:29
a habit,

Unknown Speaker 30:31
yes. which create triggers. And this also when you’re a child, and when you’re a young person and you’re growing up, also the experiences that you have have chemical triggers. Yes. And those Exactly. And those become you become addicted to those chemical triggers in the brain.

Unknown Speaker 30:54
Yes, but you can and unlearn them. Yes. It’s a big thing. But that’s what the book talks about a lot. Just like fear, anxiety, depression, they are kind of addiction. They’re definitely a habit. And just like those habits can can be unlearned. They can be you can learn new habits that take that place, not immediately. Not, you know, I got, I got a box, the one out of the box, kind of a quick solution to that. Not immediately, but one step at a time. In my case, one day at a time, I was throwing myself off my bedroom, balcony at high up in Hong Kong until the airport expressway I was about to

Unknown Speaker 31:48
you know, and but somehow I came back from that thinking of my my loved one, I mean my other half

Unknown Speaker 31:58
but the habits Gone to this extent that I was that I was on the anti suicide. The habit also was taking one step back, taking two step back, thinking of Simon three steps back, getting to the sofa, holding on to the sofa clutching x, then finding the phone, then finding the Samaritan number from directory inquiries, then getting that then them talking to me. Then by eight o’clock in the morning, this was like four in the in the morning by eight o’clock in the morning, I knew I could get down in the elevator down to the lobby, and then call up a friend and then go over to a friend’s house for two days. But the steps back from those black holes in our lives are so important, and everything can be replaced with a new habit. Yes, new and new habits of sobriety. For example,

Unknown Speaker 33:00
of absence of fear of not projecting

Unknown Speaker 33:07
nervousness or anxiety onto the future, with living one day at a time, etc, etc. So, and happiness

Unknown Speaker 33:17
and this new habits taking time is is, you know getting Where’s kind of going would be the that temporary smoking thing because it’s just like I learned that that new habit over about a two month period it took about two months also for me to once I finally made the decision, it took about that same amount of time to end. And, you know, those long held ingrained beliefs. As David was saying, you know, they just don’t go away immediately because they are long held ingrained. Yeah, stories slash programs and they take a conscious effort To adjust. And so so you offer Well, a mental well being life coaching. Yes. And so do you then help your clients make these adjustments?

Unknown Speaker 34:16
Yes, that’s part of the programs Very much so. And not all LGBTQ clients but I do have a special program for LGBTQ professionals. But yeah, I help them with the these kinds of issues. It was a six, six module six parts program really to overcome your hidden demons to lead a more fulfilled and abundant life, the most satisfying with free of unease and curious unease that we LGBTQ people have until he’s, in my case well into my second adulthood or boyhood, or whatever I’m in at the moment. Right?

Unknown Speaker 35:11
Well, and you know, it’s no disrespect to, you know, any mental health care practitioner, you know, out out there. But you know, when it comes to authenticity, knowing that someone has gone through something in my personal opinion, makes them more relatable

Unknown Speaker 35:33
and more

Unknown Speaker 35:36
you know, again, no, no disrespect and maybe maybe someone in the comments will say, No, that’s absolutely not right. You don’t have to have been a you know, addicted to drugs or alcohol in order to be effective counselor. No, no, I you know, I guess not. But I had several people in my my my life who have gone through rehabilitation from both. And the the over arching or the commonality in the several people that I know. They, again, no please don’t hate on me whatever and comments and all of that, but there, they had a better success. And they opened up more when they knew that the that their counselor had gone through something that they like, was it always the exact same thing? You know, like one was addicted to methamphetamines, unfortunately, which is very rampant in the LGBT community, especially the gaming community. And but the person his counselor was an a, you know, a recovered alcoholic, that made him just feel more like Oh, you’ve you’ve gone through something you’ve overcome something so therefore you get me. And it was, maybe it was just from this one person that a friend has done for you. She was a total like Christine person hadn’t, you know, perfect life perfect. Everything had hadn’t had anything. And, and I don’t know if maybe she conveyed to too much of that to my friend, but it was just they were not he was not opening up to her. And I think it’s because he felt like she was just had couldn’t relate, you know, like clinically, you know, one thing is to be clinically textbook. The other thing is to have life experiences and wisdom. Does that make sense? And I’m open to people having comments and so forth. If you do, folks, just whatever platform you’re on, put comments down below what your thoughts are on that. What are your thoughts on that game?

Unknown Speaker 37:54
Well, I think as a coach in general, as a life coach Pat’s particular You need to trust you need to build that relationship of trust. And sometimes it’s more difficult if you’re only working together on a high powered professional level or as the achieving coach and the you know yet to achieve. Coaching is something to do with trust and particularly in these areas of mental health. But that is really, really important. relatable. I think a lot of coaches try to be relatable and the coaching relationship is based on on being relatable and integrity. But sometimes it’s the trust factor is missing the full trust and being, as you say, able to to relate to someone who been there and done that in many ways and has a lot of experiences to tell. which gives me You know, I’m, I’m privileged to do this work and but, and honored to, to help people because I’ve also been incredibly lucky to have so many experiences all over the world to have a rich and diverse background, I’m very lucky if I’m able to say that now beforehand, if when I was drinking, I probably there was another one, or I did not flatter my back in my Tokyo flat for the 12th time, you know, Night after night, waking up at six in the morning in your own body, etc. You know, and and that’s after writing a couple of books, and that’s after being well respected. I wrote my first novel setting in New York again, otherwise it happens called Alphabet City. I’ve had a little bit of success that the gay writer on white wrote a great review of it and endorsed it, etc. But then I went back to Italy and then things began to fall to pieces again and then I’m back on the old vino from I had a little farm in Italy. After I finished my fellowship together my first partner we bought a little farm, but two or three, four years there, I wrote my first books and and was a wine and olive farmer which I loved. But also titling the wine. You know, as a wind farmer, you’re allowed to triple A wine at five in the morning, right with a garlic bread and tomato. So while you’re doing your vines, so yeah,

OutBüro Voices Interview Scott Vedder LGBT Entrpreneir Resume Career Advisor Human Resources Professional Military Veteran to Cilian Work Employment Consultant Business Owner Video Interview Podcast

Scott Vedder – LGBT Entrepreneur Resume Guru and Career Coach

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Scott Vedder is an LGBT entrepreneur focusing as a professional career coach helping to craft resumes that stand out effectively communicating the skills and past success that align with a candidate’s ideal target jobs. Job search tips for writing a great resume for all including military veterans transitioning to civilian careers, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) professionals seeking a career change and new job. Maximize your resume to improve your job search chances.

In the video, we had some unusual background noise that comes in and that kept prompting the audio activated video to refocus on me. Sorry about that. I believe I have that figured out to reduce or eliminate that in future interview recordings. At least you see I was just intensely listening to Scott.

Scott Vedder conducted over 5,000 interviews as a recruiter at a Fortune 100 company. He quickly discovered that a good résumé is truly hard to come by and that most applicants don’t have a clue what recruiters want to see. Scott’s book “Signs of a Great Résumé” is a #1 best-selling book on and has been endorsed as “Recommended Reading” by the Central Florida Employment Council (CFEC) and the Central Florida Jobs Initiative. Scott is often quoted as an expert resource and is a regular contributor to a number of international blogs, magazines, syndicated newspaper columns, and web sites. Scott has also been interviewed on dozens of live television and radio news programs. While on speaking engagement’s Scott was often asked by military veterans how to best translate their military experience to a civilian job market. This led to the adapted version of his best selling book to focus on military veterans. His focus on and strong involvement with veteran groups led him to be personally invited to the White House twice under two administrations to be recognized by the Society for Human Resource Management, Women Unlimited and the Metropolitan Business Association, LGBT Chamber of Commerce for his contributions and for helping job seekers around the world.

Scott Vedder on OutBüro >

Signs of a Great Resume – Book

Scott Vedder Signs of a Great Resume LGBT Entrpreneir Resume Career Advisor Human Resources Professional Military Veteran to Cilian Work Employment Consultant

Scott’s #1 best-selling book, Signs of a Great Résumé, will teach you how to write a résumé that speaks for itself. This lighthearted book presents an effective approach to the serious business of writing résumés. Scott’s style is humorous, easy to understand and fun to read …if he does say so himself!

Scott has developed a simple way to make your résumé speak for itself, using [email protected]#$%, the Signs of a Great Résumé. Each sign showcases your experience and skills and highlights your greatest achievements and contributions.

  • ! Any part of your experience that was “amazing!”
  • @ Defining points, places, dates, and things in your career
  • # Numbers that quantify and prove your past successes
  • $ The dollar value of your contributions
  • % Figures that easily show growth and results

Whether you’re a recent grad or a CEO, a garbage collector or an astrophysicist, you can use Signs of a Great Résumé to make your experience shine… and recruiters love to see some nice, shiny experience on a résumé!

This lighthearted book presents an effective approach to the serious business of writing résumés. Scott’s style is humorous, easy to understand and fun to read …if he does say so himself! In this book you’ll learn how to customize your résumé for each job using [email protected]#$%, how to write a great cover letter and more.

Signs of a Great Resume – Veterans Edition

Scott Vedder Signs of a Great Resume Veterans Edition LGBT Entrpreneir Resume Career Advisor Human Resources Professional Military Veteran to Cilian Work Employment Consultant

Veterans, transitioning service members and military families can get great new jobs in the civilian sector with Signs of a Great Résumé: Veterans Edition. Tell civilian recruiters, “I am a P.A.T.R.I.O.T.” Learn to highlight the military values and characteristics that make you a great candidate for the civilian workplace. Taking the above principle and further applying the veteran-specific skills referenced as PATRIOT to stand out and land that new civilian job.

Scott Vedder LGBT Entrpreneir Resume Career Advisor Human Resources Professional Military Veteran to Cilian Work Employment Consultant at US White House

Conversation Auto Transcrpit

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Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro that is oh you to be you are Oh, thank you so much for tuning in to OutBüro Voices, the new series where we are chatting with in a very casual and informative and hopefully a little bit entertaining way with LGBTQ leaders, entrepreneurs and professionals in all types of professions. Today we have a special guest named Scott Vetter. But before we get to him, make sure you take a few moments and hit the subscribe button down below if you are viewing on YouTube. If you are listening to this on one of the podcast apps such as Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Google Apps and about 10 others also know that you are able to view this directly on the out bureau podcasts or episode pages I might be changing that now that we’re doing more videos and then taking that to podcasts but know that you’re able to watch the videos on directly the out bureau comm website as well as the new YouTube channel so now if you search YouTube for LGBT entrepreneur or and or LGBT professional, guess what? OutBüro Voices pops up on the first pages so awesome. So we’re going to be bringing the helping to bring the visibility of LGBT entrepreneurs and professionals around the world to you. So again today, welcome, welcome. We have Scott a. Scott Vetter is a human resources professional with years of experience in the fortune 500 levels space He has written a book and adapted it for military veterans. And I much appreciate that being a US Army veteran myself. So welcome so much to the show, Scott. Well, thanks

Unknown Speaker 2:12
for having me here, Dennis. That’s a real privilege and a pleasure.

Unknown Speaker 2:15
Awesome. Well, I do appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to chat with us here. And as always, there is a little bit of format. I always like to start off with our guests, such as yourself, chatting a little bit about your history, a little bit of your career journey, and then we’ll move that into your your projects and so forth that’s been that you’ve been working on most recently.

Unknown Speaker 2:40
Sure, thanks. You know, I was like you said I worked in the fortune 500. I was a fortune 100 recruiter. And when I was recruiting, what I realized is, most people’s resumes are awful. And that wasn’t unique to military veterans or civilians. It was just most people didn’t know what I was looking for. How I use that information as a recruiter on a resume. So I wrote a book about it chiefly event, my own frustration there. Look at that. That’s a book. I’m on a book. That’s me.

Unknown Speaker 3:13
And I said, You know what, I think

Unknown Speaker 3:14
I can help people. And it really took off, you know, became a best seller. I went on the book tour, and wherever I’d go, I’d meet military veterans, they’d say, Hey, what about us? It’s different. And I’d say, Well, hey, what do I know I didn’t serve. But that my grandfather bill did. They were both army e6 is that’s a staff sergeant level when they got out, and nobody helped them. There were no transition programs, the Vietnam era or World War Two. And there’s a lot of great groups we have out there today. They’re helping in the transition.

Unknown Speaker 3:45
But we still haven’t quite found

Unknown Speaker 3:46
the magic recipe of how to translate and transfer all of the military experience to the civilian world. So that’s where I knew I had to help. So I became smarter about the military disability and career transition. It has become the really primary focus of my work with resumes. And I’ve become a passionate civilian advocate for veterans in the workforce. I actually was able to write a follow up version of the book just for veterans, the veterans edition of signs of a great resume. And I began networking and meeting people in the space actually earned myself a personal invitation to meet in the office of First Lady Michelle Obama at waco. Yeah, yeah, with the program they were doing at the time called Joining Forces. And then I also met with the warrior and family support group and the Office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon, to provide a fair and balanced viewpoint and how I support veterans. I was actually invited last night out two years ago to the current administration’s White House, where I delivered my resume and interview workshops at the White House military office. And for those of you who have not served that’s the people who drive the beast of the President’s car and they run Camp David Air Force One and carry around the very important suitcase. Near proximity to the president all the time. So I got to help, you know, give a little insight as to what the next chapter of their career may look like for those who are transitioning. And of course, the caveat is no government, or God. Sponsorship is implied of any story is just this is one of the many ways I found my real passion in life, which is that I help people, especially veterans find success in their career. And now I do one on one interview and resume coaching with transitioning service members from all branches and civilians to but I work with a number of really great nonprofit organizations who support the veteran transition program and help fund services that really enable them for success in the civilian workforce.

Unknown Speaker 5:44
Okay, wonderful. Well, you know, I, it, there there are, it’s not too many, but what I’m saying is there’s a lot of people who do focus to some degree on helping people with their resume. And they’re, you know, career coaches and so forth. There’s a plethora of that for, you know, the general market. So you know, one way as an entrepreneur, no matter what kind of business you happen to run, is to focus on a niche market, whatever that happens to be, and so let’s say you’re a dog groomer. So then just focusing on you know, a particular breed if you happen to have around obviously, but just to try to draw the analogy here is if you are the best German Shepherd dog groomer in the your state, and you get all of the champions, you’re going to attract a certain level of prestige and you know, folks coming to you knowing that you are the specialist and that again, is really within any kind of a business category because you know, that really is how you can differentiate yourself in any category is is new Focus. And so that’s very interesting that you, you have taken that from your career and resume advice and focusing on the underserved market of the veterans coming coming out of service and transitioning into the workforce. So yeah,

Unknown Speaker 7:18
I think, well, in part, it’s formed by my strong belief that veterans are some of the best employees we have in the civilian workforce. They’re just some of the worst job candidates, because the one thing the military does not make them really good at doing while they’re in is becoming a civilian job candidate. And while there are programs, there’s something called tap transition assistance programs that start to teach some philosophical things about the transition, they only really scratched the surface. So that’s why it’s wonderful to see that there are many veteran service organizations specializing in this and several programs that even the Department of Defense has started to fund to really enable their success where I come in is really Helping to tell the story of how what you have done in the military or in any prior career relates to what you’re going to do in the civilian workforce. And that’s what I described as using What you see behind me the signs of a great resume. They probably look like curse words in a comic strip, I promise I’m not teaching veterans to curse on a resume. What they are is specific moments that make you a particularly great candidate for a job. And this applies to any job seeker, not just veterans. But what I want to know as a recruiter is what you in particular bring to the future opportunity. So these signs of a great resume. The first one

Unknown Speaker 8:38
is the exclamation point.

Unknown Speaker 8:39
Wow, look at what I did. Nobody else could say that. At what point you gained the most relevant experience and some numbers dollars and percent they helped to quantify exactly what makes you a great fit for the job. If you ever need to remember what the signs of a great resume are, is look down at your keyboard. They’re above the above the numbers one through five, that’s where the signs of a great resume are. These are the key to standing out and differentiating yourself on any resume, civilian military or otherwise, federal resume or any kind, you can use the signs of a great resume.

Unknown Speaker 9:15
So write a resume that speaks for itself.

Unknown Speaker 9:18
Awesome, very much like that. And, you know, obviously, this did come up through your being a recruiter at a fortune 500 actually fortune 100 if not fortune 10. company. And so talk about you know, some of the, you know, you mentioned this came out of almost, well, you said a frustration there. So, you know, I to, you know, even in in looking and trying to reach out to people to come on to the show, you know, I’m going through and looking even at LinkedIn profiles and I’m say to myself, holy crap, we really think that this is going to get the attention. You know, like, There’s no use of this. For some people. They don’t use the taglines. Well, so looking in a summary of people, it’s very hard. They don’t stand out. And so that that tagline in your LinkedIn profile should, should, you know, people really need to understand that LinkedIn should not be used as a literal translation of your resume. If you’re using LinkedIn like that, folks, you’re using it wrong. Because it’s really a marketing tool. Right? It’s so that first tagline should be your, you know, three to 10 word. Bam. This is what’s important. This is why I stand out. This is why you should click right here on me. Like your exclamation point. Right, it should be that that tag should be the wow factor. And there’s so many people that I’m going through and I’m like, okay, I kind of get, and I’m, you know, trying to show, obviously diversity and inclusion with my desk. And you know, but it’s like, oh my gosh, I’m digging and digging and digging. So I could imagine, as a recruiter, going through even just thinking on LinkedIn, there’s only what how does this person stand out? Right? How does this How does this person translate or communicate what they’re doing? So and then I will be honest, I’m going through all right, if you’ve got my little bit of attention, based on that little bit of info in that little block right there. Now I click through, and it’s amazing how many people do not have a summary.

Unknown Speaker 11:54
Right and and the same holds true on a resume. So you know, I’ll agree that that the point is to capture Someone’s I quickly and that’s definitely a parallel between LinkedIn and the resume. The way you catch someone’s eye quickly on LinkedIn is with that header. And it should be compelling. And a lot of people don’t tell you anything interesting or new up there. It’s just like, project manager. Okay. Well, you and everybody else. Exactly. Let me tell you a quick secret about the civilian workforce, and maybe jobs in general, when it comes to job titles, we just make things up. And when we don’t know what to call it, we call it project manager. Everyone in their brother, including me twice, has held the title of Project Manager, and I absolutely am not like a PMP or anything like that, where that is my professional craft. But nonetheless, the more descriptive, you can be in that LinkedIn headline to really catch someone’s eye and say, hey, there’s something unique here. To keep them reading is the same principle on your resume. So on a resume, one of the very first things that I encourage you to do is write like a summary of qualifications. I call it that in Not an executive summary or professional profile? Because I want it to summarize what you can do for me. What are you qualified to do? I look at it like the movie trailer of your resume. So if you were writing a film preview, right, like in a world where this is my experience, you know what, what you would say, to entice me to see the film is what you would put in a summary of qualifications on a resume. And that block of text on the resume is something you can tailor like you’ll tailor the rest of your resume to each job opportunity, your LinkedIn profile, you only get one LinkedIn profile. So it should be the overall trailer about what is it that you bring in a nutshell to any opportunity that you’re pursuing.

Unknown Speaker 13:41
But yeah, I agree with you that there’s a lot of parallels. And

Unknown Speaker 13:44
really the distinction between LinkedIn and resumes is the way that you use LinkedIn to contribute to the conversation to things going on in the industry, whatever industry you’re in, and also to make connections because really The best way to apply for a job is not to ideally you want to be networking far in advance of your needing a job. So you’re starting to build relationships, relationships first, then results and jobs follow.

Unknown Speaker 14:16
Absolutely, I could not agree more. And you know, you bring up a point of the, the pound symbol, the dollar symbol and the percent, you know, one of the most viewed articles on out is should I be out on my resume and we’ll talk about that one moment. Because I definitely want to get to that with you. One of the others, I have a few, a few articles on it. And by the way, if you’re listening, you are all of you may post articles on the website just like you post articles funneling in, as well as out Bureau has a professional profile. as well, so that diversity and inclusion directors and recruiters can find you and be very targeted in their diversity and inclusion. Searching. In addition, you’re able to indicate your military status veterans veteran, which branch in Singapore, but but some of the things that I really kind of occasionally I get people that that think I’m a recruiter or think that I’m a career coach or something, and they’ll reach out to me and say, oh, could you review my resume? Or could you review my LinkedIn profile? Oh, yes. Like I have nothing else to do. You know? What number one you’re not paying me to do this because I don’t even know what to charge for that. But you know, every now and then if I you know, have a 15 minute kind of time slot out sometimes do that. And then I look through and I go, okay, where’s again, where’s that wow factor. There were the numbers where where, you know, you say you project manager, well, what did you achieve? What did you say? What did you improve and quantify that?

Unknown Speaker 16:10
Right? Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 16:12
recruiters and companies want to see, you know, people would say, Oh, I manage this I manage projects efficiently. Yeah, well, what the heck does that mean? Right? I manage projects efficiently. What what what quantify efficient for me? One, what was the size of the project? Was it a $5,000? project, a $50,000. Project, a $500,000 project? How many people were on the team? What were you trying to accomplish? I mean, just just give some some pure exam, give some real examples, and give some quantifiable numbers. Met project deliverables in 20% under time with only utilizing AI Were 80% of the budget. So something that gives the recruiters that knowledge that Oh, yes, they are an efficient project manager, you know the word

Unknown Speaker 17:09
read my book, Dennis, that’s really well done.

Unknown Speaker 17:13
Thank you. Now I’ve got articles myself as well. And that’s why, whenever I saw what you’re doing, I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is this is so pertinent. And it’s things that I’ve talked about in the past. And again, I occasionally get asked and building my, my own network of people. Now when I have someone, especially with military experience, I can say, hey, you should talk to this fella right here.

Unknown Speaker 17:37
I think you make an important point. And, you know, but but the fact that we agree on these points of quantifying your experience is critical. And while you can ask 100 recruiters our opinions about resumes, you will get 150 opinions or more about resumes. What you will never hear recruiters say is the candidate made it too easy. To see why he’s a great fit for this job. That’s not gonna happen. And when you use the signs of a great resume, you’re making the recruiters job easier, effectively as a recruiter. My function is to become your sales agent. I need to pitch you to the boss and say, Hey, you know that person you need me to hire for you? I think Dennis has what you’re looking for. Look at how we quantified this experience and gave specific results. The biggest mistake you can make on a resume is you write a resume that reads like a job description. So think about l

Unknown Speaker 18:34
ke a soldier who j

Unknown Speaker 18:35
st Yeah, right. If a teacher writes, taught English classes, graded papers, tract grades, prepares students for the next level. Well, great, that’s what teachers do. But that’s the job description of every English teacher. And so if I’m hiring teachers, and every one of them just says that, how do I know who to hire I don’t. And that is the reality that recruiters face is there’s tons of resumes in our system. On our desk, it all look and sound pretty much the same. Because people make that same mistake, a resume that reads like a job description is the deadliest mistake you can make on a resume. And it’s especially difficult if that job descriptions about a military job, because some 97% of Americans have never served. So we just don’t understand as directly what that job description means and how it helps us. The very simple way to assess your current resume to see Am I making that mistake is you take your resume and your cover your name at the top, then you reread what you have written. If it could be anybody else’s resume. It’s not good enough, because I don’t want to know what a project manager does, or what an infantry soldier does, or what a Navy Captain does. What I want to know is what did you do and how does that relate to what I need you to do in this j

Unknown Speaker 19:55
b? Absolutely. And so what are you know, gearing your your your time doing th

Unknown Speaker 20:03
s. Or there may be a few examples that you could give with clients that you’ve had in the past that, you know, either some tips or just examples of how you like how you took military lingo and translated that into job candidate language. Su

Unknown Speaker 20:23
e, yeah. I get this question all the time from veterans, and frankly, from civilians in very technical careers who are changing the kind of work they’re going to do. So this advice applies in both instances. But when it comes to explaining a prior career that does not directly align, especially when that’s a military career that’s changing your job function. What I want you to do and you can do this with me live if you’re watching at home or listening, just close your eyes for a moment. And I want you to picture somewhere in your life, an 11 year old ch

Unknown Speaker 20:55
ld whose parents are not in the military. Can you picture that

Unknown Speaker 21:00
id That kid knows about as much about the army as most civilian adults. You cannot trust civilians to know what the heck you’re talking about unless a fifth grader would understand you. So you got to pass what I call the smart fifth grader test with every word you write on your resume. And there are just three simple questions on the smarter fifth grader test. The first one is, are you using simple language, language so clear and 11 year old would get it? And the simple answer to that in most military resumes I get it is no, because there’s a certain language to the military. And that of course includes lots of capitalization and jargon and acronyms that just do not mean things to civilians. As a general rule, if you’re hitting the caps lock, you’re losing the civilians understanding of what it is you’re talking about. You know, some exceptions apply. You know, if you’re using a term, the average news watching American would know FBI, USA those are fine Don’t bother trying to explain to most civilians, that seal is actually an acronym for Sierra Atlantic, just stick with seal. But otherwise, avoid the acronyms and even words that you might use every day in a military career that mean different stuff to us. So for instance, if you say deploy, and you mean get sent somewhere, I might think you mean how parachutes work they deploy. If you say joint, and you mean, interagency, I might think you mean arthritis or marijuana. Just keep it very simple. And the good news is, if an 11 year old would understand it, so would another veteran, they’ll just know Oh, are you actually talking about a drink team? Are you remember, they’ll know all of that, but write it to the lowest common denominator of understanding is about the 11 year old level? That’s the first question. The second question for the smart fifth grader is are you focused on good news only? Now, I recognize the business of fighting war is not always good news. I get it. But I don’t need to hear about knocking down doors and find the bad guys or anything like it. What I want to know is how to make the world a better place. And this goes back to what Dennis was saying a minute ago, where you mentioned how like the specific accomplishments that a project manager might have had, how you make the world a better place is a better way to approach the types of examples with the signs of a great resume that makes you a great fit. I want to know what you did specifically, that’s good news for your past employer, in this case, the military and for your future employer, how it relates. And the third and final question for the smart fifth grader is are you getting to the point quick

Unknown Speaker 23:39
y, because both an 11 year old and a recruiter hav

Unknown Speaker 23:42
a super short attention sp

Unknown Speaker 23:45
n? I’m told there’s a military term that actually works nicely he

Unknown Speaker 23:48
e, bluff bottom line up fro

Unknown Speaker 23:51
t, and it’s the way military leaders say you know, when you make your PowerPoint or something, make sure you make the point right away. So if general so and so loses focus or has to go Very gotten your point across. Well, the way I think about bluff as a civilian is, can you tell me a fairy tale backwards for every bullet that you write? they all lived happily ever after good news, because once upon a time, you some details if you made

Unknown Speaker 24:17
t. Yeah, God. And you know, that’s really good advice for everyone out there looking at their resume and LinkedIn profile because again, you know, yes, there’s aspects of your career and bullet points on your professional profile on LinkedIn and out there that you want to include. But that below that, that bluff analogy is, is really good. And that’s keeping it short, simple to the point and think of it as a as a marketing statement, every statement on your resume. You need to think of it with that marketing I how is going to Wow, the person viewing this How is it Going to make us stand o

Unknown Speaker 25:02
t. A lot of veterans say to me, Scott, I don’t like talking about myself. And you know, I think maybe that comes from service in the military is a selfless service, you know, you’re serving that greater mission. you’re called to serve for whatever reason that is, and to them, I say, and to everyone, I don’t want you to talk about yourself. The first filter I need you to put on your resume is that well, yes, your name is at the top. This resume is not about you. It’s about what you can do for me. Everything you write has to be filtered with that in mind first, and it means that there may be things in your career that were significant. You’re proud of them, they made a real difference in the world. Well, great, I’m glad you did them. But if they don’t relate to what you can do for me, you might not need to tell me about them. And that becomes a powerful first filter to use and the very simple way you use that filter on a resume, to read a statement or a line or a bullet. You’ve got to ask yourself so what What is this new company going to do with this information? And if you can’t answer the So what? And you know, you pretty darn well, you’ve lived with you your whole life. How am I supposed to answer the so what if I’m the new compa

Unknown Speaker 26:13
y? Gotcha, gotcha. So making sure that that everything on your resume is tailored towards that position, and especially the position and the company, the employer, because it may not be a company, right? Yes, it may be government, it may be a nonprofit and so forth are used that I’ll try to stick with employer. So you need to think about what that what your skill set and the wow factor that you can bring and how, how that translates for that employer and that particular role that you’re going aft

Unknown Speaker 26:51
r? Yeah, that goes back to the idea of tailoring your resume and tailoring your resume. You need to know if it’s about what you can do for Me You need to know what’s important to me. And the simple way to know that is I tell you, there are job postings. So you just when you’re applying to a job, you’ve seen a job online on LinkedIn or indeed Career Builder, any of those sites or USA If you’re applying to work in federal government still, and the employer is giving you a literal wish list, this is what we need. And there are three parts to a job posting, usually there’s a description. So you know, do I want to do this all the time, and some minimum and preferred qualifications or basic and desired qualifications? Well, the description is a good place for you to assess what’s important, they may give you clues like about their culture, about their diversity and inclusion practices, and about their priorities for their business in the year ahead. And the minimum and preferred qualifications are the filters for what kinds of information you need to market to them, if you will, about your prior experience. I look at the qualifications list, like buying a car. The minimum qualified candidates are like Toyota’s, they’re fine. They’re just not special. Seemed like anybody could get a Toyota and it’s fine. It’s a good car very reliable. I think the number one selling car in America is a Toyota. But the preferred qualified candidates, the ones who are darn near perfect are like a Rolls Royce. Whoo fact that the perfect candidate, that’d be great. Well, you don’t have to be a Rolls Royce to get an interview or to land the job. You just got to come in somewhere around Lexus to be a compelling candidate. The more your Lexus sounds like my Rolls Royce wishlist, the better shape you’re

Unknown Speaker 28:35
n. Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. So, let’s talk a little bit about some of the other aspects of applying for a job I brought up the you know, should you be out on your resume? That is the second most viewed article on my website, outside of venture funding for entrepreneurs. And so there’s obviously lot and I, I’m pretty clear in my article about my position and I talked with several other people but being in, you know, in your role in your professional role at the company plus, writing your book, have you ever come across clients of yours or candidates are so for then, you know that had a really out resume or or not kind of found out, in fact, just kind of give us a little bit of perspective since the majority of our audience, you know, is focused on the LGB

Unknown Speaker 29:39
Q. Sure. So your resume should always be about what you can do for me and why you are qualified to do the job that you’re applying for. If a component of that is identifying as a part of or a contributor to the success of the LGBTQ community, then yes, it is relevant concept to cover in your resume. However, As we got to both sides of my mouth, you can give examples about how you have supported the LGBTQ community. And not all of those need to be about work. Your resume is not things that got a paycheck for, it’s things that make my experience valid. So if, for instance, you were going to work at an employer in their diversity and inclusion department, and you do an extensive amount of volunteering at the LGBTQ center in your community, maybe doing testing or counseling or some kind of, you know, groups that you h

Unknown Speaker 30:30
lp put togeth

Unknown Speaker 30:31
r, that is perhaps a relevant example, for a diversity and inclusion job because you’re saying, Look, I’ve reached out to this community. Now, how overtly you state Oh, and I’m a member of that community. Well, that then comes down to how much information is appropriate to disclose on a resume. And a few weeks ago, my my message may have been somewhat different. But very recently, as many are unsure attune to the Supreme Court has ruled that discrimination on the basis of sex Something covered under Title seven, the Civil Rights Act. Now, okay, we got all this by saying I’m not a lawyer, if you have questions about the law, go see a lawyer. However, for informational purposes only. Title seven is very broadly, we’ll just call the idea that you cannot discriminate employment practices on the basis of certain protected classes. And those include things like race, religion, sex, and that word sex has now been interpreted by the Supreme Court ruling to include sexual orientation and gender identity. The reason I’m mentioning this is because as a general rule, recruiters do not want to know about your status in a protected class, if it is not relevant, or at all, because we don’t want you to think we’re considering something prohibited in our analysis of your employment. So just like you wouldn’t say my religion is x. You would not say overtly, my sexual orientation is x because some recruiters will go, Well, no, no, no, no, I don’t want to hear that. Because they don’t want you to think that’s part of my analysis, Are there times where it’s appropriate to disclose that? Sure. Especially for instance, if you’re being asked about after the hire and the job offer is made, you’re being asked about a uniform to wear. And part of your transition to the different gender includes changing how you will present at work. That is an appropriate time to discuss your gender identity, and how you will present in that job. But it’s way after the resume way after the interview. It’s at the time of a job offer, when that is now a topic that’s important to cover. Because you should be your own authentic self at work, you should be comfortable. I’ll predicate all of that by saying, do your research well in advance to make sure you’re only applying at organizations where not only will they obey the law of which it is now the law of the land not to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity, but where they embrace the LGBTQ community and actively demonstrate a participation in it and support of it. There’s one thing to say, yeah, we’re an equal opportunity employer on the website. It’s another thing to talk to people in that organization, and to do some research about what that organization is actually doing, which is part of what I like about what you’re doing. And our Bureau is to provide more details and supporting evidence, if you will, of a company’s LGBTQ inclusion practices and actual footpri

Unknown Speaker 33:26
t. Absolutely. So I really like how

Unknown Speaker 33:31
ou conveyed that there. You know, and, and, you know, just because an employer also, you know, is on the HRC, corporate Equality Index, they’re still discrimination. They’re still discrimination lawsuits and litigation cases or arbitration cases that go on. So, you know, unfortunately, we really can’t just take that as an example which only covers the fortune 1000. So if you’re going for a government job or working at a mid sized company or working at a university, that’s even, even though they’ve been doing that for over 16 years, they’ve never branched beyond at the fortune 1000. So that’s where to end. You know, the out firoz group was just featured on LinkedIn, a nice shout out for the LGBT community. Thank you LinkedIn for that. much appreciate it. But then even in the group, you know, has limitations on LinkedIn, it’s you can’t search unless you pay LinkedIn for a recruiter level or Sales Navigator level membership. You can even within the group search other members who say work at a particular employer. So you know, oh, I want to work at x company, or ex employer. And so I’m a member of the group and I want to go search for other members of the out euro group to go talk with those employers. LinkedIn does not have that feature. So it becomes very difficult. And I’ll say for hours and day in first starting the out bureau comm site that’s o UT, you are calm. Even searching companies that I knew were were very, very inclusive and so forth and had didn’t have a, you know, any legal issues going on to my knowledge, at least the year prior, even googling them trying to search for LGBT related content was difficult, because the vast majority of employers even though they might have a very active employee resource group for the LGBT employees, even though they might participate in pride in a New York, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami Li etc even though they might, you know, sponsor LGBT owned businesses, even though they might sponsor LGBT nonprofits it’s very difficult to find that information so I hear you and that it’s it’s like whoa do your research and try to understand that they’re a really you know, inclusive and embrace it employer but it is darn difficult to do th

Unknown Speaker 36:29
t. Yeah, I th

Unknown Speaker 36:31
nk so that is that is where that that was the impetus for out bureau comm is seeing those gaps and those difficulties. So number one, this is my little call to action for everyone out there is to join out so that you can search for other members very easily. Out bureau does not have the limitations that LinkedIn has forced on you because they’re they’re trying to force you to pay the hundred dollars a month or more for the recruiter or the Sales Navigator. role, even though you’re just an employee, you’re just looking for other people in an organization. Okay? So the more of you that join out Place your professional profile, you will be there for others who are seeking you. Additionally, you’re able to provide a rating review, anonymously, on your current and recent past employers. So I think that’s very important because even providing that, you know, my employer is fantastic. There’s one review and I’ll give a shout out as to it Intel. There’s one review on the website right now by a transgender person. She clearly indicates that in the review, and just gloats how what a wonderful employer that is. And then there’s others that don’t sign that that great. Now, over time that you know, let’s be, you know, honest, every organization is made up employees. So even a very larger organization of, say, 100,000 employees, as I like to think of the, the doubt, yes, we have the laws, and I’ll get to that in a moment. But you know, policies and so forth are really the intent of the company, the intent of the employer, because they don’t control every employee 24 724 seven of the day in the week in the year, right. And if we even just take sexual harassment, which I’ve used this example many times, but even raised, you know, just by taking sexual harassment, it’s been illegal, just like now it’s illegal to discriminate against LGBT people based on sexual orientation and gender identity. If we just take sexual harassment As Case in point well, that’s been illegal for for 40 years, but sexual harassment still happens. And in employers of say 50 employees or larger, every before you can come to work, you have to sign off that, you know, it’s it’s bad to do sexual harassment, you have annual training on sexual harassment to ensure it’s See ya. And but it still happens. And so, yes, this is fantastic that the Supreme Court has made this, you know, illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation and gender identity. But don’t think for a second that it just automatically makes every employer a, you know, rainbow flag waving unicorn loving place, right. But yeah, it’s you know, yeah. And you even look at employers like, again, this is public knowledge. It’s, it’s out there, so I’m not trying to beat them up, but it’s just reality. Look at Goldman Sachs. So Goldman Sachs has been on The HRC corporate Equality Index is ranked 100% for numerous years, and for several years in a row in a row, including 2020 20 was named one of the top employers in the financial sector based on HRC corporate Equality Index, however, they just finished a What is it called going through a lawsuit and settled for a discrimination suit. And so again, I’m not trying to beat them up here, but it’s just reality in that, you know, you can’t just look at the that any Equality Index around the globe, they’re all modeled after HRC. So you just can’t look at that and say, Oh, I’m, I’m, you know, because they’re on that list, they’re automatically going to be a fantastic 100% amazing place to work and I can just walk in with just, you know, yeah, you want the space to

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OutBüro Voices Interview Steve Yacovelli LGBT Entrepreneur Producer Director Writer Vim Media Professional Startup Business Owner Video Interview Podcast

Steve Yacovelli – The Gay Leadership Dude, LGBT Entrepreneur

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Steve Yacovelli Top Dog Learning Group The Leadership Dude LGBT Entrepreneur Gay Professional community business owner diversity inclusion trainging OuBuro

As an out, LGBT entrepreneur business owner Steve Yacovelli has dealt with many facets of growing and sustaining a business. Focusing on what he is passionate about he drives education and growth for individuals and organizations in an authoritative yet approachable way. Leveraging his 25+ years of experience as a leadership, change management, and diversity and inclusion consultant to cultivating our collective leadership awesomeness. His book, “Pride Leadership,” is one of the first to focus on developing leadership talent specifically for the LGBTQ+ Community and its Allies. It’s time to channel those qualities into being a more effective and consciously inclusive leader within the workplace and beyond.

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About The Gay Leadership Dude

He realized that there was no focus on specifically developing LGBTQ+ Leaders within the corporate world beyond some a patchwork of effort and not necessarily a cohesive focus or movement.

So, “The Gay Leadership Dude” was born. It’s his way to give back to the LGBTQ+ Community: to start a movement to grow LGBTQ+ Leaders to be even more effective, in a consistent, thoughtful, and mindful manner. He is especially focused on those up-and-coming Leaders within the broader movement for equality and fairness for all LGBTQ+ people and well beyond. 

Pride Leadership: Strategies for the LGBTQ+ Leader to be the King or Queen of their Jungle

Critically-acclaimed and award-winning book for LGBTQ+ Leaders and Allies to help expand their leadership skills to better explore what’s working and reflect on what could be improved upon. “Pride Leadership” provides the strategies and tools to build a network of leadership support. It’s the start of an “LGBTQ+ Leadership Movement” to cultivate and grow leadership competencies.

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Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro that is your LGBT community online where you belong and your voice matters. Welcome to the OutBüro Voices series where we are interviewing and I guess when I say we that’s a royal sense, right? Because I’m an entrepreneur of one. So, huh, it’s me whenever I’m interviewing LGBT entrepreneurs, professionals and community leaders, and thank you so much for tuning in. We are you might be viewing this on the OutBüro website or on YouTube. If you are on YouTube, please take a moment right now and hit that subscribe button, as well as hit the bell that bell is going to ensure that when we are producing there I go again, when I we, geez, I can’t you know, it’s all about perception is reality when you’re in business, it’s grow, grow, grow. So I’ll continue Whenever we produce additional and new content, it’s going to ensure that it gets you alerted of it so that you come back because I’m trying to produce as much of these as possible to get the visibility out for our LGBT community, so that our young folks and everyone out there can have great mentors to look to when they’re considering their business. And one of those is Steven. Steven is the leadership dude. And welcome to the show. Thank you, Dennis. It’s great to be here. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. And I get deep. I knew for a fact because we’ve chatted before that I didn’t have to do one of these for you because I knew Stephens already gonna have his little corner of his office all set up and branded, so wonderful. Thank you. So, Steven, tell us a little bit about yourself. And maybe just a little brief overview of your background.

Unknown Speaker 2:08
Sure. I’m accent doctor see doc LA, owner and principal top dog learning group, also known as the gay leadership dude. at top dog, we focus on learning and development, leadership, change management and diversity consulting. And that kind of leads to what I’ve been doing pretty much my whole career has been in something in the shape of leadership and diversity and inclusion. So whether that has been internal to the Walt Disney Company, I was an IBM er for a while. I was a professor for like a hot minute, as in the full time academia realm, but really started my own business about 12 years ago full time and that’s really the the space that I’ve been playing in ever since.

Unknown Speaker 2:46
Okay, well, awesome. I’ve been a little all over the board and you’re in Orlando, Florida. So there is the Disney reasoning. Correct. Huge employer. Central Florida. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 3:02
The largest private employer in Central Florida. And it might even be the state Actually, I would think so.

Unknown Speaker 3:11
Yeah. So did your leadership kind of

Unknown Speaker 3:18
did you do HR and leadership in Disney? Was that one of your functions there?

Unknown Speaker 3:24
Yeah, I actually it’s kind of funny story. I worked at Disney twice. So after undergrad I grew up in the Philadelphia area. I went to a small state school in Pennsylvania, and studied public relations and speech communications. And so my dream was to be a PR person at Disney. So after undergrad I packed up my little Ford Escort I think I had at the time and just drove right down. I 95 to Orlando without a job. And I got one I worked in the central reservations office, which were the kids at home. That’s pre internet. It’s actually pre windows. We were a DOS based kind of thing and I actually had a job Yeah, I remember I had a job on the 407 w Disney line, which was the main place to get any sort of information about your family fun time at Walt Disney World and everything. And these are true calls, we would get me and 499 other folks sitting in a call center. And people would call from the park because it was payphones pre pre cell phone. And they’d be like, Where’s the nearest bathroom? And you actually had a load database, you could say, oh, you’re at this, this phone, turn to your left and you’ll see a door and like we had to direct them that way because people are you kind of lose their mind without holiday. Or and I swear, this is a real story to a question we get the people will call up and say What time’s the three o’clock parade. And you know, and we no lie, and we had our we type in data and we get the official official script. And the official script was always 245. So one you did make the person feel kind of silly, and then second actually got them in line or in their spot earlier so that they could kind of do the park so I did that for like three months was a horrible experience for me. Just wasn’t a very good fit, but I ended up coming back to Disney several years later at a more professional capacity I was a leadership and organizational consultant for Disney Cruise Line so I worked short side in the in the Orlando office the celebration office but I would travel on the at the time the two ships quite often so it was a kind of a sweet gig. It’s a sweet gig I gotta

Unknown Speaker 5:21
say. Good and you know getting as you mentioned right out of college you know, one getting that job at Disney, I mean nowadays that’s it well, with COVID it’s really hard. But will for a long time one of my aunts worked in HR at nice, the Disney and you know, not an easy place to get on board. Yeah. And you know, so many people from the area you know, looking for, you know, the jobs they’re one little tidbit one little thing we have in common I too. worked at a call center for a while. It was 1991. And my ex of my 20s and I, we met in the military in Germany. He was still in, we knew each other from you know, going out in Frankfurt, and in Germany, and we were both in the military when we first met. And then I got out of the military and helped form the very first technology calling center for fifth quarter military, so it was where all the US military from from Frankfurt and South Germany would call in when their printers were broken. Whatever, but that was just three of us. That actually man that that call center, it was when we returned back to where he lived in Columbus, Ohio. And for those that don’t know, Columbus, Ohio is quite the fashion capital. So with Lane Bryant, Abercrombie, Fitch, Victoria’s Secret, all of that headquartered there, and he and I actually work to the call center at Victoria’s Secret. know at that time I was 22 or 23 years old, taking phone calls from ladies and men helping them place their Victoria’s Secret catalog orders and helping, you know, taking the talking them into the new bra that was

Unknown Speaker 7:37
Yeah, that was pretty interesting. So,

Unknown Speaker 7:40
you know, I lived in Columbus as well.

Unknown Speaker 7:42
Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 7:44
Yeah, I went to Ohio State from my master’s degree.

Unknown Speaker 7:47
Oh, wonderful. I went to I state as well.

Unknown Speaker 7:54
I wasn’t in this. I got to tell people. I wasn’t into the football.

Unknown Speaker 8:00
But but but you know it’s it is a boy columbus ohio and their their football I mean it is it is truly a see that yeah if you’ve never experienced that kind of just almost power that that the the football culture in columbus ohio has it is some

Unknown Speaker 8:24
even the gay guy even the gay guys have tailgating party

Unknown Speaker 8:29
parties we go to if we didn’t have tickets we go to the local gay bar and Union Station and you know watch the game there

Unknown Speaker 8:37
absolutely absolutely. So cool beans So tell us a little bit more about the the leadership dude I know you and I have talked about your your book a little bit but help our viewers and listeners get a good sense.

Unknown Speaker 8:57
Yeah, so I’m about Two years ago, I was at my first mg LCC conference, the National Gay Lesbian Chamber conference, fantastic group. And I was kind of sorting my business cards before a session and there was a woman next to me doing something very similar. And we just struck up a conversation and she’s like, what do you do? I’m like, oh, in consulting, blah, blah, blah. And I said, How about you? She’s like, well, I’m a publisher. I say, you know what, there’s a book in my head that needs to come out, you know, I’ve written you know, I published my dissertation and which I think my my mom is the one who bought that, but that’s fine. And then I did an ebook called overcoming poopy elearning, which was self published in my doctorates in instructional technology and distance education. And I had mixed mixed positive and negative vibes for doing this self publishing thing. It was it wasn’t a great experience for me. But I’m talking to Jen grace, publisher preppers price. And I’m like, you know what, let’s chat. And so flash forward. My book price leadership came out, which I happen to always keep on the desk. Um, and so it was it was a really great explain And I was going to write kind of a generic leadership book. And the more when I first started down the path in organizing some of my thoughts and, and I was doing a lot of advocacy work in the LGBTQ community, with our peeps, and I’m kind of starting to observe some of the leaders around doing, you know, different volunteer organizations and things. And then my inner Carrie Bradshaw kicked in, like, I couldn’t help but wonder, and I couldn’t help but wonder, you know, I’m watching these awesome queer leaders do their thing. And I’m wondering, is there something about our shared collective experience that does make us a little bit more reticent for the leadership competencies that I’ve seen really work out in in the general field as a leadership consultant, and that’s kind of what I write about in private leadership. And so I found what I thought were the top six you always have my swag, a little mousepad but these are the the top six competencies I talked about pride leadership, Authenticity, courage, empathy, communication, relationships, and then shaping culture. And that’s the the framework of the book. But it’s through the lens of being a member of our community.

Unknown Speaker 11:04
Okay. And so,

Unknown Speaker 11:10
you know, again, as we’ve talked in the past, but you know, for our listeners this, this is a, you also have an accompany workbook.

Unknown Speaker 11:20
I do Where’s it? It’s right here. You’re right. So so the idea behind the books and the fancy book workbook, which is also out there, but the whole goal of the book wasn’t the book. I mean, if there’s anyone here watching or listening, you know, authors aren’t typically unless you’re like Oprah caliber out there to make a gob of money. You’re there to kind of get your story out. And my story is really to help start an LGBTQ pollution movement and focus our collective energy in that arena. And so my endgame has always been a training experience. You know, as an educator, that’s kind of what I do as a company, but I really wanted to create that. So a couple steps back was the book. Then the workbook came And now we have an eight week online leadership program that’s really starting to take off. You know, oddly enough, it was in the midst pre global pandemic, but it’s always online. It was always modular approach. And so now we’re getting folks are like, hey, I want to use this time to develop myself. And so that’s where where the end game was, which I’m so excited for.

Unknown Speaker 12:19
Awesome. Yes. So I’m kind of just thinking, you know, out loud here is so, so looking at leadership that’s really from a very open perspective, correct? No, it’s so so this is could be for anyone. Someone in college looking to a to learn leadership skills, someone in their career, who’s looking to get to that next level in their career, or maybe even someone who’s, who’s a volunteer. Yeah. And looking to hone your leadership skills as it relates to perhaps serving in their local community.

Unknown Speaker 13:06
Exactly. One of the things I do in the very beginning of leadership is I define what is a leader. And to me a leader is anyone who has influenced within the workplace, that could be that entry level person who’s kind of influencing the people around you, that could be all the way up to the C suite. and everyone in between I, I’ve worked with clients who define leader as leader of people. And I think that’s kind of shenanigans, because you have that indirect influence over folks if you don’t have that direct. And that’s actually even a more tricky leadership position to be in, because you don’t have the formal authority. So you have to leverage different skills and tools in order to help folks move in the direction with which you’re trying to get them to move. And so I think it’s, I think it’s silly when I have I tried to dissuade some clients to say no, let’s let’s think about this a little bit more broadly. And just like you said, Dennis, it could be a whole bunch of folks really want to focus on being better within their leadership skills.

Unknown Speaker 13:57
Yeah, it’s, I find You know, when it you know, when you’re looking at leadership, when you’re looking at business, when you’re looking at your relationships, when you’re looking at almost every facet of your life, you’re always, always and you’re typically in a position of attempting to influence that might even just be Friday night and outside of the COVID era, trying to influence your significant other on where you’re going to go to eat that night. Yep, yep. Okay. So, and within, you know, and so there’s lots of different examples even within a friend, Friendship Circle. So, you know, a leadership skills are definitely not only for the work environment number one, and definitely not only for once you have achieve a quote unquote leadership title that now you have people report to you, it’s like, well, you definitely need the assistance then. But, but really, it’s to your point in self development and just saying, you know, as striving to be a better person, and that, again, could be in real in your own personal relationships. It could be in your work, and when and again, I’ll get back to, you know, community service, working with, you know, local nonprofits of any sort. So it’s, it’s very pertinent to, you know, all kind of a good portion of your life if you recognize it, and I think that’s the key point is being open to recognizing it because so many people kind of go through the motions of their days in there. weeks and not even realize that they are marketing themselves and they are positioning themselves effectively or poorly as a leader.

Unknown Speaker 16:12
Yeah, one of the things I talked about quite early on in the book is no, and this is part of the the lions program is the name of the eight week program, which stands for leaders immersive opportunity to nurture strengths, because, you know, former Disney, I had to have some cute, cute little acronym, you know, that goes with the branding lion. Right? But, but in the AV program, as well as in the workbook in the book, one of the very first things that we talked about is, is what’s called what I call drone perspective, which is having that self awareness, you kind of like you imagine, you get your drone, this drone zooms up. And it’s kind of looking at the situation that you’re in, in the moment. You know, in LA Times, this is referred to as like mindfulness, mindful meditation, that kind of stuff. But being able to get out of your own head is the concept. And that takes a lot of skill and have that self awareness to say, ooh, you know what, I maybe am Not super good at this XYZ competency or the situation and having that that thoughtfulness to do something about it. And that’s, that’s, to me one of the biggest leadership opportunities is to be humble enough to know where I’m really awesome but we’re not so awesome and do something about it to get more awesome in that respect.

Unknown Speaker 17:23
Absolutely. And when a and you know, in the entrepreneur space where that comes in is no no your strengths, know your weaknesses and as soon as possible as soon as income allows, hire other people to do the jobs that that you frickin suck at. Doing. Absolutely. But, but yeah, so in the

Unknown Speaker 17:55
so in the space, definitely

Unknown Speaker 17:59
taking Taking that moment and kind of realizing that, you know, sometimes we have, we’re forced into situations and or being a bootstrap startup where we have to do everything. And, you know, it’s something that I always strive to do personally is, you know, I, I have a vision for where I want to go. And you know, I’ve had technical issues I’ve had so many different things go on, just within out, you’re alone. But one of my, one of my traits and what I’m trying to bring to the table to the community is my own personal development. And that is every single day, I learned something. Excellent. And whether that’s listening to podcasts on entrepreneurial ism, I absolutely adore Jay Abraham. is an absolutely eloquent, masterful individual. If you don’t know that that person, folks out there, look him up just an amazing person, not LGBT.

Unknown Speaker 19:16
We still like some straight friends. I’m sorry. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 19:18
And you’re probably occasionally going to have to Google some words to use. I mean, I like to use some, you know, fun vocabulary, you know, here and there. But, Holy moly, occasionally, he just dropped some words. It’s like, even if you’re like, what?

Unknown Speaker 19:36
Just mean?

Unknown Speaker 19:38
Very, very neat. So, but it’s also like right now doing these, doing these, you know, that’s been on my radar. I’m a product manager. I used to be a software product manager. And so I I’m what’s called a scrum master.

Unknown Speaker 19:56
I just learned what that meant, like one of my participants in the lions program is a programmer and she was sharing a story about her Scrum Master. I’m like, why is that and so I just learned that last week.

Unknown Speaker 20:08
Okay, it’s a it could sound highs I’m a scrum and the scrum master. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:16
Well I for those that that aren’t aware of google it but

Unknown Speaker 20:23
you know to me it’s you manage to a lot of post it notes and journal I have a huge amount of documents and on my wall for set for quite a while had been you know, content, user content, community content and so forth. And you know, whether that has been doing interviews like this, but a technical issues and being overwhelmed and finally got over that so that employee ORS can sign up. So employees out there you may go to our bureau at o ut Be an anonymous leader and reach your current or recent past employer but part of the the getting back to you know kind of doing this was all right you know I had some some things I had to get over it just like you know your hope everyone’s career right you whatever those hurdles are in your career and in your job and so forth but but it’s part of being a good leader is about being persistent and consistent and and striving for becoming better. And so you know, like right now doing these, you know, YouTube videos, it’s every day. I there are certain people now that I pay attention to and I’m seeing the results and now Now granted how does that relate is like When you it’s about self education, and about, you know, taking responsibility for yourself in educating yourself and then what you do with that. So kind of walk us through in that self education for your book and your workbook. Maybe some of the highlights of that. You brought up the cue card, which I love. Oh, there’s no

Unknown Speaker 22:25
it’s actually my it’s a mousepad. Like I’ve a sweatshop. Look. I’ve got mugs. Hey, so if

Unknown Speaker 22:32
you leave that with your customers or your clients,

Unknown Speaker 22:37
graduates, graduates of

Unknown Speaker 22:38
the program, graduates god, yes. So. So what kind of what kind of folks now? Have you seen or, you know, what have you seen people use? Use your tools, use your information, and kind of get out of it and take away from it and you know, has there been Any kind of success stories that you’re able to share? And sorry, because I asked up on the slides.

Unknown Speaker 23:06
Oh, that’s great. That’s great. So one of my participants, and she’s, she’s still in the program, but she actually was an early adopter of the concept. So she’s with a large pharmaceutical company, and she’s actually an ally, but she’s within, in the LGBT employee resource group, an ally in that, but really wanted to develop her own skills. She’s, I think, a project manager for the company. And so, you know, I’ll use my thing, you know, she’s, she’s thinking about what, what, out of these six competencies, she really wants to focus her energy first. So one of the one of the tools, of course, is is self analysis, like, you know, where, where am I at when it comes to these particular competencies or skills. And so for her, she said, You know what, I’m going to focus on the communication part. So that’s kind of the fourth module down there, little green green strip. And so when she said communication, and she’s like, specifically, it’s providing feedback. And so one of the things I talked about in the book, you know, there’s a simple model, there’s a lot of models out there for feedback. There’s one I’ve used in the leadership programs that I’ve taught, and it has pretty easy success. It’s called ECC. You know, you share with people the example the effect, and then either what you want to change or continue, which is where the C come in. So, you know, Dennis, when you lead our interdepartmental meeting the other day, there’s the example. You You missed one of the agenda items, and therefore, we now have to loop back with the other department and kind of get some stuff. So that’s the effect. So it next time, can you make sure that you get all the items on that or that agenda so that we kind of don’t have to do double work? That’s the change. Or hey, Dennis, when you lead the meeting the other day with with the whole interdepartmental. Folks, you did such a great job you got through the agenda real fast. We attendance left people ask some great questions. So that’s the effect so can keep up the good work. That was really great. So there’s the continue to be good behavior. simple model when I’ve taught for a while there’s other ones out there, and she’s like that one alone. really helped me relate to my team just to kind of organize the feedback and thoughts. And then I talked about the example of providing feedback, it should be balanced. You know, you don’t want to work with some organizations where someone comes up to you and says, Hey, I have feedback. And I was like, What is it, you know, because feedback is a bad word. And so feedback, feedback should be a neutral or a good word, if it’s being utilized in a balanced sort of way in your organizational culture, whether that be you or your clients or big group. So that’s a kind of one example. Another one that one of the participants. So in the in the program, you get three, one on one executive coaching sessions, kind of at the beginning, middle, and then two months after that you kind of leave the program, and during one of the conversations the other week, or for fairly early on, you know, we go through the authenticity chapter fairly early. And and the one of the activities in that is to look at your own personal value system. And some folks have done that in their careers, some have not. So there’s a quick activity in the workbook to actually Find out what are your personal top five values? And one of my participants said, You know, I never did that before, I never really thought about what are the things that are so important to me that I value. And then you put that lens through, what are you doing at work. So if you’re in a job that never touches your personal values, you’re gonna have a problem at some point. Or if all the work that you’re doing doesn’t feed those values in some way, shape, or form, that’s going to feel icky. And it’s you stop and have a conversation with yourself and kind of get in that drone and take a look around. And he said, you know, thank you for that, because it just made me put things a little bit more perspective on where I want to go both in my current job, but also outside of of my job and make sure that those values are being, you know, using Steve’s term fed. And that was another good example of some of the tips that that people are actually applying stuff that I’ve had, like, yeah, it’s working. So that’s kind of exciting to see.

Unknown Speaker 26:54
Oh, Barry Barry. And so um, so you say that Meeting originally about the book was, if I’m not mistaken about two years ago,

Unknown Speaker 27:08
correct? Yeah. Um, so this this, this August will have been two years. So, after that meeting I got about a month later, I started kind of formulating the book. And I knew I wanted it to come out pun intended. As a gay leadership book. I wanted it to come out June in pride month of 2019. But to make that deadline, I had to have a final man or a first draft manuscript to my publisher by like, New Year’s Day of 2019. And so I said, from basically Labor Day, until Christmas, just doing nothing but writing obviously trying to make a living with clients and things like that, but you’re really trying to kind of get through organizing my thoughts, you know, figuring it out, you know, initially I whittled it down to six, I had 29, or something like that competencies that I was trying to figure out where the white ones and then My thinking partner slash sister, Wes, come in who does similar work to me. And so that was kind of that that process and then you go through all the iterations, the editing. And that took us until, until the very end of April, to kind of get through all those drafts. And my book is 356 pages. So it’s a bit of a lot, much bigger than I expected, I kind of was targeting 200. So yay, for both Steve. But you get through that process. And of course, it’s the things like, you know, picking the the cover and writing the back and getting the testimonials inside and all that other stuff that you never really think about. You just say, I got to write, but no, there’s all the other stuff that goes along with it. And then, of course, the marketing piece of it. And so it was, it was a really fascinating experience. It was I will say, Dennis, that writing the book was easier than marketing the book. That’s the biggest challenge of and you know, just because you think I’m going to write it and then you put on Amazon and Yay, everyone’s gonna love it and you got to tell people it’s there and so I That’s always a continuous opportunity. And then I knew the audio book had to happen. So actually, I just lost the audiobook like two weeks ago. Yeah, so so that’s, that’s out there as well. And I put put the link under my name, you can actually get a free book. We’re doing a free plus shipping during this COVID time. So there’s a top dog click for slash free ship. And you’ll you’ll get to a website and you just have to pay for shipping and handling. So there’s that but the audio book was really, really weird into that experience. I don’t know if you’ve ever, ever thought about like, how does someone make an audiobook and I’d never thought about it, you know, just kind of grabbed him on on Audible, whatever. Right? But so I, I was working with another producer. So my publisher doesn’t do audiobooks, but she has a referral. So I went to this woman, and she’s like, Okay, the first question who’s reading it? I’m like, I don’t know who is reading my book. Well, that’s up to you. We talked through that and she’s like, you can do it. All you can do it all professional, you do hybrid. And then the more I thought about it, I’m like, Okay, I have a whole chapter on authenticity. So if I’m not going to be the one reading it that’s kind of not very authentic of me. It’s, I figured, okay, it’s gonna be me. Well, in the age of COVID-19, internet traffic is crazy high, of course, because everyone’s at home. Right? Well, I got on the very first call. So it was myself and this, this audio producer, and and basically, we log into this super secret software that he has, and we just do the recording there. Well, the internet traffic was so high that and audio files are very sensitive, I guess, to traffic and things they can drop. So so we kept dropping words. And we tried it a couple times. I’m sitting literally under my router. And he’s like, I don’t know what to tell you, Steve. You know, you might have to just do this on your own and I have some experience doing like radio voiceovers and stuff back in college, you know, W ix q news at my millersville University. And so I set up by computer and then we’re like, okay, where’s the quietest place in my house? Of course it’s it’s in our our walking closet in the bedroom. So I’m literally reading my gay leadership book in the closet during COVID-19 for 65 plus hours and that’s kind of the story of coming out of the closet again, just to kind of make my audiobook happen.

Unknown Speaker 31:18
Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, it’s it’s not it’s not as easy as it sounds. I’ve actually gone through professional voiceover training myself. Nice. And yeah, if you if you search me on SoundCloud, I’ve done a few commercials and some different things. And yes, I can go into kind of that voice.

Unknown Speaker 31:48

Unknown Speaker 31:50

Unknown Speaker 31:52
as I as I told family members, because I’ve had people that since I was very young, I’ve had people go Oh, my gosh, your voices, you know And I feel I use that now and I definitely use it when I’m on the phone. Yeah, because yes, when you are voice overing when you are reading a book like that, it’s very important to pay attention to the Annunciation. The pauses, your plural motives, which and your

Unknown Speaker 32:27
T’s, your keys and your

Unknown Speaker 32:30

Unknown Speaker 32:31
It’s, it’s very technical. And, you know, yeah, people don’t always think about that. And then yes, your, the quality of your sound is and crazily, you know, the closet and the end are folks out there and you know, the reason is is because the your blank walls, and so for sound bounces off of that, and so you need a lot of software. Or you need a treated space say that your, your, your, your,

Unknown Speaker 33:06
your good mic which I’m not using I’m using

Unknown Speaker 33:10
a good mic will pick up that and you’ll get reverb

Unknown Speaker 33:15
is very,

Unknown Speaker 33:16
very funny though. It was funny though, because when we’re

Unknown Speaker 33:21
in there and we’re doing the test for the with the audio guy, so you can say okay, yeah, you’re good to go. He’s like, there’s just something you know, because obviously there’s no clothes on the ceiling. So I took my dog’s dog bed and kind of looped it over my head and he’s like, that’s perfect. It’s just I have a picture of it. I just look ridiculous with the food or the all the clothes everywhere a dog bed over my head, my microphone and I’m like, yeah, and of course there’s no air conditioning in the closet. So and it’s Florida. It’s just like, oh my god.

Unknown Speaker 33:53
But it worked. It worked.

Unknown Speaker 33:54
You’re a hot mess in the CLI was a hot mess in the closet.

Unknown Speaker 34:00
You know, you really should put a photo of that up on your website

Unknown Speaker 34:04
or write a blog about it. I did.

Unknown Speaker 34:07
Yeah, I did do a social media post, but I probably need to revive that again. It’s

Unknown Speaker 34:12
Yeah. to, to funny. Funny. So, very neat, very neat. So just, you know, how are you so let’s get kind of on the business side of things. You know, you’re, well, thanks for coming on, did you This is partly marketing, your, your, your book and your, your coaching sessions. So how, as a business owner, you know, you did touch on that that’s, you know, as an author, as a coach, you’re, you are a business. And so talk about maybe for just a few moments, some of the opportunities, the challenges, opportunities and ways in which you have kind of overcome that getting the word out because you Every business, you know, is always is has that on their mind? How do they get the word out about their, their business? And so give us a little bit of insight about some of the opportunities and things that you’ve been doing?

Unknown Speaker 35:15
Yes. So COVID-19 has really hit a blow to so many of us entrepreneurs and small business owners. For me, one of the main revenue streams was stand up training at clients, well, that’s not happening anymore. And so in in, in March, we launched so we I’ve three big fortune 500 that we do all of their leadership training, and I say we because it’s actually not the Royal we actually have consultants who

Unknown Speaker 35:41
work for me as

Unknown Speaker 35:43
I do some of it, but I had them do most of that kind of stuff. So I can do more the business development and product development. And so all three clients came back and said, Nope, we’re not doing anything anymore. So I lost a massive six figures of revenue coming in. So it’s like rats. What We do now. And I have a fairly upbeat glass kind of full glass full half full kind of guy. And so it’s like, Okay, so what do we do next? And, you know, I knew the lions program was was just starting. So I’m like, okay, there’s that we can focus some energy there. And then, you know, a new deal. And the audiobook was another product. So I’m like, Okay, well, I’ll focus my energy there. But I’m lucky enough to have a an infrastructure to pivot and do virtual things. You know, we’re doing zoom. Right now, I’ve been using zoom for three years for online trainings from a distance learning thing from executive coaching session. So that wasn’t hard for me. A couple years ago, I created a webinar on how to do webinars for a client, and I dusted that off. And I’ve been doing that kind of for, for folks. And just really trying to to leverage the technology that I’m comfortable with and see how I can take that. So I’m actually seeing working with some folks because they’re not comfortable in this space, and this isn’t going to go away. So They’re like, Steve, can you help me like think about what’s behind me and the lighting and and how I use this medium? Like I would have done it in a face to face? Of course, that’s one things we do. So I’ve been seeing that and how am I getting the word out there. It’s social media. It’s growing my email list, which I’m not very good at, I’ll be the first to acknowledge in skills skill, the book came out, I never had to market I mean, top dog was always word of mouth, I get a couple clients, and they tell two friends and they tell two friends and you know, etc, etc. And that was great. But once I knew the book was coming out, now, I’m not going up to B, I’m going B to C. And so now I’m going right to the consumer and to do that I need to market and so that’s, you know, been the social media thing, growing my email list. And then really just just trying to partner with folks to get the word out for different things I have for the lines program. I have an affiliate marketing program that’s slowly kind of getting out there where you know, I give some money back to somebody who refers a new new participant. And then and then also doing things like this A lot of podcasts, I’ve been doing a lot of free webinars in the age of code, because you know, Intel, people get totally saturated. I have 25 years plus of content on my hard drive that I can dust off and kind of share. And some of that is things that are like I used to teach, or I do teach a class on being resilient in times of change. Well, this is a very appropriate time for that. So I dusted that off. And I’ve been doing that as a webinar and, and I actually have been selling them as virtual keynotes. for clients wanting to do those. I have one tomorrow for a group in London. And so they’re there, end of day, my beginning of and they are going through a lot of changes, like so many folks, I’m like, hey, let me talk walk you through the three strategies to help you be more resilient times of change, like perfect. So those types of things are pretty cool. I did a virtual keynote yesterday for another pharmaceutical company for their pride group, because they wanted the gay leadership dude to talk pride things because all their pride stuff went away from what it was. And they’re like, well, let’s do virtual stuff. And so that’s been kind of nice to still engage, especially with our community. is in during pride month but but while we’re all social distancing as well.

Unknown Speaker 39:06
Okay, well awesome. That sounds like you have turned it into pivoted and continuing to be active and busy so that’s awesome. Yeah, well cool well jeez it’s been great catching up with you and so much appreciate you taking time out of your sounds like very busy week, which is a good thing. And we’ll make sure that we have all the show notes and links to the leadership dude. Here on the show on the on the episode page, which again you all of you will find act out that is O ut You will click up on the top it says podcast might be changing that the episodes we’ll see but at some point because of the The videos now, but also, all of these shows get turned into podcasts. And you’re able to find out Bureau and outro Voices Podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google, and a total currently have 13 podcast apps and growing. So make sure that you subscribe to our bureau on whichever platform that you desire most. And coming up here on the screen in just a moment. Be sure to click the subscribe to be notified again of when new shows come up and hit that bell to ensure that you are notified. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is Dennis belko without euro and Steve the leadership, dude, hot dog consulting. Thank you so much. Thanks, Dennis. And thanks for all that you

OutBüro Voices Interview Anthony Bawn LGBT Entrepreneur Producer Director Writer Vim Media Professional Startup Business Owner Video Interview Podcast

Anthony Bawn – LGBTQ Entrepreneur, Producer, Director & Writer

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Anthony Bawn, an LGBT entrepreneur, is co-fonder of VIM Media. VIM Media is bringing fresh and innovative films and shows that are predominantly minority driven both on-camera and behind the camera with stories that both speak to the target audience while also being approachable to a wider audience. Bawn, a gay business owner, director, writer, producer, and actor who knows how to take a vision from concept to final product crafted for his target audience while smartly managing bootstrap startup budgets, locations, acting talent and so much more.

Bawn was born in Gainesville, Florida, and has a passion for acting and film since the age of two. He graduated from Columbia College Chicago with a Bachelor’s in Theatre with a concentration in Musical Theatre. Anthony produced his first original series Cheetah In August in 2014, which helped him gain recognition from various local and international film festivals. Currently, Anthony is developing original narrative content focused within the LGBTQIA ethnic communities with the intention to showcase true to life stories.

Anthony Bawn on OutBüro >>

Anthony’s List of projects on IMDB >>

His work has been award-winning constantly challenging the genre to bring fresh talent to the screen with rich stories that all can relate to. Sometimes the topics are ones we’d likely discuss with the family such as Conframa. A tale of confusion and drama as a male married couple explore the boundaries of their relationship opening it up to other persons joining in a poly experiment with UPS, down, and sideways moments.

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Cheetah in August


As I Am


Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hi there, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro and welcome to yet another episode of OutBüro voices, where we are having fantastic conversations with interesting LGBT entrepreneurs, community leaders, and folks who are just dating cool. Like today we are talking with Anthony bond. He is one of the cofounders of vim media which can be found as you can see on his screen at vi m He’s been working on this for quite a while doing video and film production, casting, every all the damage you could imagine in what it takes to create episode shows and episodes of those shows. So I’m sure we’re going to have a very interesting and the light bill conversation and welcome so much Anthony to the OutBüro voices show.

Unknown Speaker 1:03
Thank you so much for having me. This is such an honor. And I cannot wait to

Unknown Speaker 1:09
tell you about my little thing that I do.

Unknown Speaker 1:11
Well also, Well, how about we just go right into that then and but I always like to start with a little bit of the background and kind of the journey as to how you got there. Like in our initial introduction call, we found that we have some, at least some similar commonalities in the schools that you went to in the past. So let’s kind of delve into a little bit of your history and then kind of lead up to how you got into coke. co founding the media. Yeah, um,

Unknown Speaker 1:44
well, I am I was born and raised in Gainesville, Florida. So I grew up in the south, always wanted to be an actor. I was so fascinated with theater, movies and things of that nature. My biggest mistake inspirations obviously are Spike Lee, as directors and actors, you know, you got to Laurence Fishburne and your Sydney protease and your Harry Belafonte. Those are my ideal people that I looked up to growing up. And then you know, recently directors you know, like Barry Jenkins and moonlight and if bill shoot if bills you could talk but I got my start in. Like I said in the second grade so in Florida, my mother wanted me to be a doctor, I grew up in a very, um, Island family, my family’s from Bermuda. And and basically, we, they she already had her vision for me and I was like, No, Mom, I want to be an actor. I want to do this and do that. And she’s, she’s like, okay, yeah, you do it for a little while. And then once you get to college, then you’ll do what I want you to do.

Unknown Speaker 3:03
And as

Unknown Speaker 3:05
I said, so I went to college. I graduated from Duke Ellington School of Performing Arts in Washington, DC. And from there I went to Columbia in Chicago where I majored in musical theater. But my primary focus was in theater. There I met a lot of my good friends that I have today also met my husband there at college, that that, that we’re still together now for almost 13 years and going strong. Wow. So after I went to after graduating from Columbia, then I went to New York with the dreams of I’m going to be this big Broadway star. And clearly I saved up some money for the first year and then after that first year, I quickly realized that honey, it ain’t happening. So

Unknown Speaker 3:58
money goes very fast in New York City

Unknown Speaker 4:01
Yeah. So then I’m like, Okay, then you need to get you need to get a regular job use your degree and get a job. So, and I did just that I got a corporate job working for a wealth and tax advisory firm. And I was there for like a year and some change. But in in between that I was still yearning to for my creative urges in my spirit to be nurtured. And I started this first show that was a call. What’s the function? It’s a reality show. It started out as a talk show. That was five guys that’s supposed to be five gay guys on different spectrums. One was a recording artist, one was the author. One was a professional dancer, one was a fashion stylist and the other one was a philanthropist. And so it was just their whole viewpoint of what the world is and how they are treated. within this world that quickly became some spawned into a reality show I no longer about a talk show. And it to this day, it was like one of the largest, you know, view most viewed gay reality shows on YouTube when it first came out back in like 2010 2011 because there was nothing like that on YouTube during that time, and it was also featured or featured on Keeping Up With The Kardashians on E. And then at that point, it just spawned into its own own thing. And then, from there, I started I moved to LA I was like, Okay, well you know what now, since I’ve had some semi success with this reality show, let me try to go to scripted content. I got a hold of my first TV show when I was working With one of my friends from college His name is Andrew Malone. He wrote like the script for what will be the the bones for my first TV show cheat in August. And from from there I did the first season and the first season got so much rave reviews there was classifying as the new Noah’s Ark that was done by Patrick and Polk and MTV logo, because that show had been off air for a long time. And then my show came along and it gave people that essence of what they want to watch had the drama You know, it had, you know, the story and everything was in it. And it had a sense of sci fi because when the main character has an alter ego that we see in the show, that so he Yeah, he battles with himself and his alter ego because he thinks he He’ll people through sex.

Unknown Speaker 7:03

Unknown Speaker 7:04
Yes. So. So once we did that show, and it just spawned into a countless amount of other original shows that I’ve either directed wrote or help produce. And then now we come to I started my own streaming platform, which was called bond television. And I’ve had on television for years, I think, maybe five or six years. And then I was approached by a small group of other like minded creators that they had a company, the media. And they approached me and said, Hey, we love what you’re doing with the LGBT side of things. We’re trying to start a platform, but we want to have one person to lead the gay section on the streaming platform, while we work on garnering in other different types of content. To make it all exclusive, but we want to make sure that the LGBT is very strong on our platform. So like we have very strong representation of that, because we don’t want to let that fall by the wayside. And they saw my catalog that I already had, and it was like, Okay, this seems like it’d be a good fit. So I agreed to it. And they brought me on board, sign me on for as a co founder for the new firm and I dissolved bond television and then they ingested my catalogue under their platforms. So now we are in the process of creating a ray of new material that I’m so excited for because not only are they allowing me to have have my voice and also to tell my story how I want it to be told They also given me the freedom to do it, how I want it to be done without restraints.

Unknown Speaker 9:05
Okay. And so you mentioned that it’s that, that in the media that they brought you on board for the LGBT content while they’re focusing on other things. So, is it is is a media looking to be more of a total LGBT kind of media enterprise or is it going to have, you know, cooking shows and dog, you know, like to have a variety of different kinds of shows or is it all going to be all LGBT, LGBT kind of centric,

Unknown Speaker 9:44
it’s gonna it’s going to have a variety of things on there, look, they’re looking at, they’re looking at doing their own reality shows. They’re looking at doing their own competition shows they’re looking at doing a news like a news broadcasting because on the website they do have a live they have a live feed where that they can you know stream live for I guess maybe like 25 hours or something like that 24 hours or whatnot, but they are they they are able to put on that put on this type of material on this platform so I’m excited to really be a part of it.

Unknown Speaker 10:24
Okay, well I’ll have to, if you have not checked it out before seen it. What’s happened in media based here in Wilton Manors in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, started with a a weekly broadcast variety show kind of like the W and a huge following on Facebook. Now they’ve started Nightly News broadcasting. So it’s so it’s all gay news every night. Well, that that might be an interesting You know, opportunity for you guys to connect up. So, and I just I know that not because I’m connected with people, so is always in my feed and so but anywho So, so interesting. So So you are kind of in the so how far along is the media? It’s getting, you know, kind of really launching is it launched? Is it you know, people subscribe today and how do they begin to consume this and view your content?

Unknown Speaker 11:34
Right? So yes, the website is up on the stages we’re in now is that we recently acquired funding for like, I think it was like $2 million to to create our own original material, but that’s, that’s going to be broken up over the next course of the next 10 years. So however, that yearly budget is going to come into the company. They are allocate the funding to each department. So my department for the LGBT sector will get a certain amount of budget so that I can create shows for the platform. Um, but right now the site is up there, you’re able to subscribe, you’re able to watch all the content. But we’re in the beta stages of launching our mobile app, which is going to be on Apple TV app, iPhone, Android, Roku, and then there’s going to have like the fire stick, I think, and it was like one other one. I think it was like Samsung TV or something like that. So yeah, so they’re really reaching out but that over the next over the next three to six months, we’ll, we’ll see the full rollout of the platform.

Unknown Speaker 12:51
No. Okay. And hopefully they’ll revise that budget from 10 years down to at least five is doing the math. Like, I know, it’s, you know, they do good quality content can take some money right now yeah, I’ve been doing it inexpensively. It still takes quite a bit, especially within aggressive, you know, trying to do your own reality shows, game shows. And so lots of sets have to be created. And

Unknown Speaker 13:20
well, you see, the thing is when it comes to that, how I view that process is that there’s a lot of people that have that have standards. And when I when I think that a lot of people who went to film school who graduated from film school and who went to those type of institutions, they’re conditioned a certain way to understand that this is what’s required in order for something to be made. And that’s not the case. I didn’t go to film school I didn’t go to I didn’t graduate as a producer or whatever. But I’ve worked with a lot of graduate students from UCLA Harvard. Verdun, Yale, that that no this type of business and there’s like, Anthony, what you’re doing and how you’re doing it, no one in the industry would be able to get it done on those types of budgets, but you get it done and it looks good. It’s not like shit. So they’re, they’re all amazed at how how efficient it gets done. Yes, you know, there’s some cracks here and there and things happen here and there but that’s just the nature that’s just the nature of the business. But at the end of the day, it does get done.

Unknown Speaker 14:37
Guy guy

Unknown Speaker 14:38
and not not not a million dollar budget or to do like, you know, some someone told me like, Oh, I need $100,000 to do 130 minute episode. I’m like,

Unknown Speaker 14:50
What? Yeah, you know that? Yeah. Yeah, right. No, I understand that again. No, no, what’s great, it’s true is taking that, you know, kind of crappy bootstrap, you know, approach, you know, the more success you have with that, you know, then as subscribers Come on revenue, you know, really begins to take traction, that’s just going to add to the budget and be able to do even more but, you know, so many entrepreneurs no matter what, no matter what industry you’re in, you know, we all have to, you know, like out Bureau is a bootstrap self funded, you know, startup as well. And, you know, I do lots with next to nothing. It’s all about you know, like in your industry, in your industry, yes, there is a certain amount of equipment you need to have,

Unknown Speaker 15:45

Unknown Speaker 15:46
you know, a certain amount, you know, if I tried to shoot it, other you can

Unknown Speaker 15:51
shoot a movie on your iPhone. It’s not it’s been done. It’s been done, and no, and it’s been nominated for a very Pristina, ward. tangerine was shot all on an iPhone.

Unknown Speaker 16:05
Really? Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 16:07

Unknown Speaker 16:08
All iPhone and it was nominated, I think either like a Golden Globe or something like that it was. And I’m like, it just further proves my point, you know that, that you can create mindful content, but not throw a million dollars at it. I mean, for me granted I would for a film I would take 15,000 to produce a film and get it done and make it look great. And then I’ll use the rest of that million to market it.

Unknown Speaker 16:42
Well, there you go.

Unknown Speaker 16:44
Well, I know a little bit of something my ex

Unknown Speaker 16:48
17 years while I was working in my technology consulting business that I owned, I actually supported him for nearly four years, while He went to film school that he went to both New York Film School and in Orlando, Florida, the New York Film Academy. And talking about doing things on a budget, obviously, when you’re a student in the school and I had a lot of fun for, for a couple of the shoots where I volunteered to do all the craft services. So right

Unknown Speaker 17:23
is very important to actually that’s a very important thing. You’ll be surprised more people spend more money on crafting services, then for a PA.

Unknown Speaker 17:34
Wow. And so for those who don’t know, craft services is the food and beverages that’s on this set so that everyone doesn’t get hangry Mm hmm. And but yeah, so they gave me a budget and I created a whole menu. So every day was different, you know, different food, different kinds of things because I enjoy cooking that’s one of my things, but So that was a lot of fun, met some great, great people through that process. So know a little bit about the industry from that. So, so what kind of projects if any, are you currently working? I did check out your website and I’ll just say, I didn’t, I didn’t subscribe to view all of the content but from what I could view certainly had, you know, some yummy factor going on there. You know, hunky hunky looking guys.

Unknown Speaker 18:32
Like Hello, yes, yes, you a new a new.

Unknown Speaker 18:40
So, you know, what kind of are you currently working on any production projects or?

Unknown Speaker 18:48
Yeah, um, as of right now, where I come from a season two, we’re just now wrapping that up. We’re still in the process of releasing those episodes. So I think this week We have the last few couple days of for this season and we got a third season thank God in which which shows that again confirmer confirmer. Yes, it’s an 80s term that means that it means confusion and drama. Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s what was told to me. My uncle is like my mentor. I, he told me I was telling him, me and my husband were talking about something. And we were telling him about a situation that was going through and then he was like, Oh, my gosh, you guys just come from? I was like, What is that? He was like, he said, it’s an old term from 80s, like confusion and drama. That’s what you guys are doing right now. I say, you know, I’m taking that. I’m taking that and I’m gonna create a show off of that. And so I did. Now this is our we’re in our second season now and our third season is coming out 2021 hopefully with no COVID

Unknown Speaker 19:54
Oh, my goodness. So tell us a little bit about the the premise of that particular Show, you know, what’s it about? And, you know, kind of what’s the general storyline of this confusion and drama?

Unknown Speaker 20:08
Yes. So come from it is about a married couple who have invited a third person into their marriage to become their boyfriend. So it showcases the rawness of emotions that this married couple goes through with this young with this young man. And it’s, it’s comedy, it’s a comedy, it’s drama is really serious. And it brings up a lot of a lot of things that that most people don’t want to have the conversation about polygamy, and no, like, those things are real, like, you know, those are real things that happens in the world. So and I wanted to speaking from experience I wanted to write a show about that, because I had an experience me and my husband had an experience with that. And it was not

Unknown Speaker 21:11
the best situation. But, um, I wrote a show about it. A great show came out.

Unknown Speaker 21:19
Okay, now so you say a married couple is that a heterosexual are gay married? Gay married couple gay married couples. So gay male. Yes. All right. So I so polygamy or a lot of terms would be lovely.

Unknown Speaker 21:32
Yeah, but it could work both ways. Right?

Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like it seems. Trends. Well, because

Unknown Speaker 21:42
and that’s another thing because in the second season, we introduced that because another female that’s in our show. She in the first season, she talked about her experience dealing with that in her marriage, and that’s why her and her husband divorced and we brought that story in the second season and we introduced her relationship and her situation with with her ex husband and the girl that he left her for. So it’s like you have that so you have that you also have my character situation I’m in the show actually. Angel as Angel, but my character situation dealing with now I’m in a pending divorce with my husband from the situation and then I ended up moving to a new a new apartment and then I started messing around with an other married couple that happened to be my neighbors.

Unknown Speaker 22:43
Yeah, I gotta say certainly on point. I tell you what, it certainly seems I’m fairly still fairly new to the Fort Lauderdale, Wilton Manors area and then also recently divorced three years ago. But, and quite ready for that to change up by folks out there hello handsome, handsome potential husbands out there. But, you know, I’ve, you know, have I been an angel throughout all of my past travels and so forth? No, but I guess I was just a little oblivious. Uh huh. As to how much in the gay community and I’m sure heterosexual to some point, but specifically in the gay community. It’s like in Wilton Manors in Fort Lauderdale, it’s like 95%, at least my exposure 95% of the couples are either open or cheating on each other.

Unknown Speaker 23:46

Unknown Speaker 23:48
there’s a difference. Well, and that’s the one thing that I do

Unknown Speaker 23:51
and the threat levels. Yeah, I have. I have met several couples who have three or four where they’re all For the best, yeah. Well, we’ll say, even when they have three in the relationship, they’ll still go out and do things.

Unknown Speaker 24:10
No see enough. And that’s it. And I guess that’s the thing that I in the show that I really want to put to head because there’s a difference between being open and there’s a difference between having understand a level of understanding and communication. So and that’s exactly what I outline in the show that more most people think that you know, gay couples are very men are very promiscuous and then they want to like you know, see things outside of marriage, but then in the show it outlines that no, that’s not the case is that these two couples, they love each other, but they just like they their appetite to sexual appetite is in heightened when they have another person that’s involved. It’s not that you know, it’s not that they want to cheat or go out and you know, mess around with other folks. That, oh no, we have a level of understanding Oh, that person wants to come in. Hey, we, we, it’s a community level of communication. And that’s, and that’s one thing that I’ve that I love about the show. Because I wrote, I hope, you know, right now, God the first season this season, I didn’t write as much until the later episodes, but like all of my writers, they understood what I meant and how when I came across in the development process of the show, like they were just on point on all levels, so I was like, oh, okay, and I didn’t even tell them like, a detailed backstory. And I was like, This is situation.

Unknown Speaker 25:39

Unknown Speaker 25:41
situation B. Let’s make it happen.

Unknown Speaker 25:44
Yeah, girl, because in the gay community who has not experienced that, seriously, seriously, so, but yeah, you want any more material? Hmm, just come on over to Fort Lauderdale. And, you know, I could go boop, boop, boop, boop boop boop boop. And I mean, it’s, and I’ll be I mean, okay, so, so here’s the material for you and your show. We might have to talk a little bit offline. I don’t know how much of this that I was put on this. However, you know, whenever I first but what I will share publicly, is whenever I first moved there a little over a year and a half ago, I started seeing this very nice guy. Well, I won’t say we’ll just say he was from New York retired from a very early retired from a very prestigious

Unknown Speaker 26:41
organization at a very high level. And

Unknown Speaker 26:47
when we first started seeing each other, it’s like omg walk into his house. It’s exactly my style all mid century modern furniture. Also an artist I’m an artist, a painter. As well, he’s also a painter. So I’m like, I’m complimenting all the art. And it was like, finally at the end of the first, you know, evening at his house, he’s like, Oh, well, that’s actually mine. I’m like, Oh my god, you just went up. And, you know, it was like every, every 30 minutes, there was something up and up, and up and up. I mean, he was already an incredibly good looking, well fit in everything else, man. And we actually saw each other for almost eight weeks, and then all of a sudden, one day he goes, Dennis, I’m not going to be able to cry. I’m probably not going to be able to see you for about two weeks, possibly three. I’m like, Oh, are you going out of town? He goes, No. My husband is coming into town.

Unknown Speaker 27:46
Now, I have been in this man’s house

Unknown Speaker 27:51
three to four times a week for eight weeks. There was not one time any hint, no photos. In the house, no Hinton conversation. Wow. And I, you know, I’m like, well, is he as hot as you? And and he’s like, Well, yeah, he’s actually a dancer in the New York ballet. And so he’s, you know, incredibly good body. And 70 picture. I’m like, are you guys? Are you guys open to a truffle? And he’s like, Well, let me talk to him. I’m like, Oh, you haven’t had this conversation before, but we have to you have been seeing me now for eight weeks. And I just, you know, though, I didn’t like feeling like if he would have been open about it. Yeah. Like upfront. Mm hmm. And we had had the opportunity to have those conversations as adults, the whole waiting room. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 28:57
Ah, you know,

Unknown Speaker 28:58
I would have been a different story right? My yeah would have been a different story,

Unknown Speaker 29:02
the and that’s and that’s what I’m saying in the show. That’s exactly what happens. The conversation happens. We’re straightforward. We have a conversation with the other young gentlemen. And we just lay it all out. It’s like we have no expectations. We don’t want anything for you. We just want your time. And we just want like, if you’re interested, yes, we think you’re cool, but blah.

Unknown Speaker 29:25
That’s it. It was 100%. transparency.

Unknown Speaker 29:30
Okay. Well, I think that this is very onpoint. This so is that currently streaming on? Yes. First TV.

Unknown Speaker 29:39
Yes, the first season is and the second season it the first four episodes of the second season is on them right now, streaming, and then we have a couple more episodes. Those are going to be releasing over the next few weeks.

Unknown Speaker 29:51
Well, now I have to watch it.

Unknown Speaker 29:56
Now now Now you’ve already got me hooked and I’m

Unknown Speaker 29:59
and It’s a very sexy show, I will tell you that it’s very sexy.

Unknown Speaker 30:04
Well, nothing wrong with that with a handsome fella like yourself in the show as well, I’m sure you’re gonna get lots of views, hopefully from this. And so. So on the subscription is that a monthly subscription for the year,

Unknown Speaker 30:20
we have a monthly and we have an annual subscription. So the monthly subscription is on 999. And the annual subscription is $83. For right now we have a promo that’s going on that if you use the promo code, newbie 2020 you’ll get 30% off for the the entire subscription for the lifetime of how long ever you

Unknown Speaker 30:45
have it. Oh, wow. So newbie. 2020 Yes. So 30% off perpetually so long as you maintain your subscription.

Unknown Speaker 30:57

Unknown Speaker 30:58
Awesome. Awesome. We like that. And and what’s so great about that is, you know, folks when you are subscribing to them what you’re also what you’re doing is you’re not only you’re getting original content and you’re supporting an LGBT business and an LGBT media business, that I helped bring you additional content focused on our community. So it’s supporting our community and and supporting, helping to further get LGBTQ characters out in the world on to media. So Hello. Hey, who doesn’t love some yummy guys? Right, right hands? Well, I mean, it’s stories. And that’s the

Unknown Speaker 31:45
other thing I just wanted to I wanted to make sure that like, yes, the actors that we cast literally just happen to be attractive. That’s not what we’re looking for. We’re looking for For actors, and they, it’s just so when they come in audition room, and we look at them and they get the script, and they read the material, and we like, wow. So you can actually act and you’re attractive.

Unknown Speaker 32:15
Right? So like,

Unknown Speaker 32:18
how it works, it doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t hurt. Well, you know, every, every, every film, every TV show, you know, you know, is not going to name names. If I, you know, I, you know, are some actors not exactly the, the, you know, the hottest Sure, yeah. But, you know, they they play particular characters. And you know, they do those characters well, so I understand, right, but in I’m visiting my sister right now in in Central Florida, and, you know, she knows, if I’m a I don’t watch much TV, but when I do I’m gonna watch several episodes, you know, or several seasons of something. It’s gotta have some yummy factor. Right? It’s got like, I’ll just do a shout out right now. Well, there’s a few shows I recently watched. I love the new Netflix show called Hollywood. Oh, I love that show that has

Unknown Speaker 33:18
I love Ryan Murphy. You know, I’ve that’s one other person that I, I think deserves a lot more recognition. Just because what he does with the community and how he tells us stories, and how inclusive he is in all of his material, not just like white, black, you know, it he’s like, very inclusive across the board. I think that needs he needs his roses and his praises for that.

Unknown Speaker 33:47
Absolutely. And one additional show. I’ve seen all eight seasons now. I’m going to give a big O shout out for the last kingdom. Folks, if you haven’t seen the last Kingdom

Unknown Speaker 34:00
Oh isn’t the zombie one

Unknown Speaker 34:02
No, it’s the United Kingdom before it was all United Kingdom. And there’s the one main character it’s centered around this character called Goodrich blueprints is Danish. He’s a Denmark from Denmark and he’s like a kingmaker. Oh, we’re just gonna say, okay, hot as fuck. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, right? And they have they portray homosexuality, lesbian I mean they portray a lot throughout the whole show, but if you’ve not seen it, it’s worth putting in your queue. Let me tell you for for for beautiful, hunky. Hop man if you’d like to see that. The last Kingdom book rich sauna boot rich

Unknown Speaker 34:59
definitely have a Check that out.

Unknown Speaker 35:02
Well, so wonderful. I appreciate you coming on today and giving us a little bit of background on VIM media, which again, as you see on your screen is that head out, head over there right now, and subscribe. Be sure to put in the promo code of newbie 2020, or your 30% off your subscription. And I believe that is both for the annual subscription as well as the monthly subscription. And that is perpetual for as long as you maintain your subscription status. So there you go. You’ll be supporting this fantastic gentleman right here and the bond as he is striving to create a original LGBTQ content. So check that out. And again, if you would like to hear this Or continue this, or watch or hear other episodes. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, pod, Spotify, or iHeartRadio. And be sure right here if you are watching this on YouTube, right now go right over here and hit the subscribe, as well as check out some of the other videos that we have. We’re looking to bring you original content as out your voices, featuring LGBTQ entrepreneurs and community leaders. So if you would like to be on the show, please head over to choose podcast and you’re going to see be a guest fill out the form and let’s schedule a get-together and learn more about you so that you can also be featured here, just like Anthony bond of vim media again, that’s the M Thank you so much, Anthony, for being With us today and when you have new shows and new things to announce that you would like to come back please give me a holler and we’ll be sure to get you scheduled back here. We’ll do thank you so much. Ready you have a wonderful rest of your week. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone. This is Dennis Velco. Without bureau that is O ut where you belong and your voice matters.

OutBüro Voices Interview Veronica Kirin LGBT Entrepreneur Professional Tech Startup Business Coach Owner Video Interview Podcast

Veronica Kirin – LGBT Entrepreneur, Author, and Anthropologist

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Be a Guest or Recommend a Guest

Veronica Kirin is an and award-winning serial LGBT entrepreneur, anthropologist, and author. She is the creator of the Three Pillars of Business Scaling™ and is an Entrepreneur Coach certified by the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce. Her first book, Stories of Elders, documents the tech revolution through the stories of those that lived it. Her latest work, Stories of COVID™, is documenting the pandemic in real-time for a book for future generations

Veronica on OutBüro. >>

Here is the Audacious Entrepreneur Academy, where entrepreneurs can find the meditations I mentioned:

The Stories of Elders Podcast can be found here:

And my current work, Stories of COVID™:

Entrepreneur Coaching

Veronica Kirin Entrepreneur Coach LGBT Startup Business Owner Professional Leader Lesbian Community

Veronica Kirin has 15+ years of experience as a leader and implementer. Her career started with two terms in the National Civilian Community Corps, with whom she deployed across the nation performing disaster relief and humanitarian aid. She has since founded nonprofits, startups, and small businesses. She is regularly engaged as a Coach to advise early- to mid-stage businesses to scale their reach. She not only specializes in building new businesses from the ground up but also restructuring internal business systems for growth-oriented operational efficiency. Veronica has commanded all facets of brand strategy, business operations, web management, B2C and B2B marketing, business scaling, and entrepreneurial financial literacy, to place her as one of the top, sought-after coaches for growth-stage businesses. She speaks at conferences and events worldwide to shift the mindset of business leaders and give them the tools they need to scale.

Stories of Elders

Stories of Elders Author Veronic Kirin Examins techology changes over decades by those who have lived to see and be impacted by it - LGBT Entrepreneur Lesbian business owner

America’s Greatest Generation has witnessed the onset of an incredible evolution of technology and social progress. From mere entertainment to life-changing advances, technology has changed the way we live, work, and identify. Sadly, with each passing year, fewer of members of the Greatest Generation are still alive to share their wisdom as the final generation to grow up before the digital revolution.

Stories of Elders preserves the wisdom, thoughts, humor, knowledge, and advice of the people who make up one of America’s finest generations, including the Silent Generation. These fascinating people not only experienced rapid social and technological advancements but also devastation in their daily world. Major historical events like World War I, the Dust Bowl, the Great Depression, and World War II shaped their youth and molded their lives.

Author and cultural anthropologist Veronica Kirin traveled more than 11,000 miles across the United States in 2015 to interview the last living members of the Greatest Generation, each one born before 1945. Stories of Elders is the culmination of her years of work to capture these uniquely personal stories in the form of a book that will store their perspective for generations to come.

The Greatest Generation saw the routine use of airplanes, cars, microwave ovens, telephones, radios, and the internet come to fruition in their lifetimes. Many spent portions of their lives without electricity, using kerosene lamps for light. Their childhoods were simple, relying on outdoors games and imagination for their fun. How they went to school, pursued their careers, and raised their kids was radically different compared to today.

New generations, more than ever, look to the exciting future for guidance instead of the stories of our last living elders. By chronicling more than 8,000 years of life lived during the most transitional time in American history, Stories of Elders offers old-fashioned insight no other book can.

Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hello, good afternoon. Good morning and good evening. This is Dennis Velco with OutBüro and you are tuning in to OutBüro voices, where we have interesting conversations with LGBT entrepreneurs, business leaders throughout all different kinds of sectors, community leaders and LGBT professionals and what I like to say an LGBTQ professional is everything from a dog walker to an astronaut. Wouldn’t that be an interesting conversation? And today we are joined with Veronica Kirin. She is an author, a podcaster, and an entrepreneur, and an entrepreneur coach. So she has lots to talk about. So we’re going to dive right in. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Unknown Speaker 0:54
Thanks for having me, Dennis.

Unknown Speaker 0:56
Oh, well, absolutely. kind of see Some of your postings on LinkedIn, and but you had some interesting content that you were sharing, which caught my attention. But first again, once I started actually listening to some of your podcasts, I realized, wow, you know you have a lot of things that you have done. Could you kind of get our audience a little bit up to speed about some of your background and some of the things that you’ve accomplished, really interested in that book? And then, and then we’ll kind of transition into what you’re doing now. Okay. Yeah, sounds

Unknown Speaker 1:38
good. So, my career actually started working with the National civilian community Corps, which is a branch of America that deploys across the United States for disaster relief and humanitarian aid. That’s where I cut my chops for leadership, came back, and founded my own nonprofit organization. And that was the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey in 2010. So this was far better. Before, you know the internet hadn’t quite grown up to the place that it is now, coaches weren’t really thinking. And so I was figuring all this out on my own. Soon after that, I was laid off from my day job. And so I started a tech company, which is the company that I ultimately scaled and sold in 2018. And that was a really interesting experience because I was a little bit of a baby queer at that point, I wasn’t so far out, but I was definitely out of my comfort zone being not just a woman in tech, which is already a minority, but then a queer woman in tech in a very conservative city. And so there is this whole conflict of imposter syndrome happening for me, not just I’m growing a business and figuring all this out for the first time. But also, I’m supposed to look a certain way and act a certain way according to these guys who are, you know, just wearing suits every day and I don’t understand, you know, do I belong in this room or not? So it was a whole journey of discovery. I had a couple of other small businesses in between. But ultimately the tech company, which is called Green cup digital still alive today still going strong, so run by a woman. I guess that’s the one that Yeah, really like, that’s me that’s my baby win right there. And so I sold it because I found that

Unknown Speaker 3:18
I really wanted to do more. As you said, I have a book out actually have a couple of books out and a couple more on the.

Unknown Speaker 3:25
But my first book stories of elders

Unknown Speaker 3:29
took a lot of time and energy. And I was finding that to drive 12,000 miles across America to interview strangers in the greatest generation. So, people that like, there are already age and language barriers. And to then put it all together and publish it was just too much to do alongside running a tech company. And so that’s why I chose to sell it. And I published that book six months later. And so since then, I’ve been

Unknown Speaker 3:56
so wait, hey, wait, wait, Paul. So so you sold a technology company to do to finish your book.

Unknown Speaker 4:06
That is a book and to coach others. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 4:09
boy now that is Spoken like a true entrepreneur, risk-taker, right? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:17
Things are going great at the tech company. I had it scale to 10 hours a week, I had a team of four, we were beyond six figures. It was really comfortable. But I, I’m not really one that gravitates towards comfort. I’m one that wants to constantly evolve and grow. And I have the book on the way and that that’s really what I wanted to be doing. that mattered a lot to me.

Unknown Speaker 4:43
And as I said, I had a lot of hard won

Unknown Speaker 4:45
lessons from that initial seven years of being in business and I wanted to share those lessons with others and help them grow so that they didn’t have the struggle that I have. So ultimately, that’s how I ended up being An entrepreneur coach, which is what I do today.

Unknown Speaker 5:03
Okay, awesome. I will definitely be diving into that. So. So if I, if I recall correctly to, you have that book finish, but you had a lot of additional stories that, you know, just couldn’t quite make, you know, the cover to cover the cut. So tell everyone what you’re doing with that now.

Unknown Speaker 5:29
Yeah, so the premise of the book was to document the paradigm shift brought about by the high tech revolution. And that’s why I was interviewing people who are so much older than me because they lived it and they saw from the first radio coming into their homes all the way to I have a smartphone now. So they could really encapsulate this experience and document it. But think about you know, 80 years of life, the stories that these people have to share not just about technology, but about the world. And about family and travel and just, it’s so difficult to even begin to, to put it all in one box. And so the book really is focused around technology. And then the other stories like virtual STL, coming home from the Eastern Front in Germany and seeing the Statue of Liberty for the first time in years after, you know, fighting a war and liberating concentration camp and that feeling of like, I’m home now and like being greeted by the Statue of Liberty, like I was crying when he’s telling that story is nothing to do with technology, but it has to be recorded and told. So just as you said, I started a podcast, it’s one of my earliest podcasts, to share some of the pieces that didn’t necessarily fit in the book. And also to give readers the opportunity to hear them tell the stories in their own voice because there are accents and there are inflections that you’re just not going to get from a written Text.

Unknown Speaker 7:00
Okay, so these are recordings that you had the actual people awesome so yeah,

Unknown Speaker 7:06
so some of them are rough because they wanted to be in a restaurant and you have to honor where somebody feels safe to do an interview like this. So it’s not like perfect podcast audio it’s I was in their home whereas in a restaurant or wherever, but yeah, that’s them in their own words.

Unknown Speaker 7:23
Oh, awesome. And, you know, I like I really like that that resonates with me as far as the the your focus was on it. Pardon, he was on technology, but you have all of these life stories and life events and then around that, and you know, at the end of the at the end of every day, you know, the technology that we utilize, you know, even this, it has to, it does whether it wants to or you want it to or not It has if it within The larger, larger construct and framework of our lives and bad technology is or unsuccessful. Technology is ones that do not because they tried to force themselves in an inopportune time or an opportunity or an inflexible way. And so those are the technologies that did not survive any link times. I think that’s very fascinating that Yeah, I got to see that and you’re able to portray that in your, in your, your podcast now. And what what what a wonderful way to give your readers you know, that that next level of interaction, next level of content, where they can go and experience that deeper and richer, you know, connection. So, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 8:50
yeah, because it’s so hard to convey, like, the level of soul-changing experience that I had spending so much time with these people. So if I could give that a, just a snippet of that back, and I was also quite proud to get just a few queer stories into the book again, that wasn’t the point of the book, but there was a grandfather who said, My grandson came out as gay and it changed me completely because I was not going to disown my own grandson, my own family. And I interviewed a woman who was a Playboy bunny way back in the day when playboy bunnies weren’t in magazines, they’re in restaurants doing the serving, and she had like to do all the like posture training and everything. And then she came out midlife and became an English professor. And she said, she said she moved to be a professor at the University and to become a lesbian, which is like my favorite phrasing. Um, so there’s, there’s these little that’s not the point of the book. And so I didn’t get a lot of it, but there are just these little pieces of our history in there as well.

Unknown Speaker 9:55
Oh, very, very cool. Very Yeah. And so You then did a small podcast for it, or at least a temporary podcast, it seemed like it was like from point A to point B. But it was a long point. It was like you were traveling across the country. Yeah. And kind of fitting in podcasting. When you could tell us just a small bit about that. And then we’ll transition.

Unknown Speaker 10:24
Yeah, well, so that was actually for the book tour for my book stories of elders. So I was, as you said, traveling from point A to point B instead of a circle this time because I wanted to terminate the travel in Los Angeles and then stay there. But there are also regions of the United States that I hadn’t been able to return to. So it was really amazing to have interviewed people four years ago, and then see them again and present them with their copies of the book and have them help sign so every book, signing But I have where, where there are people they interviewed, I asked them to sign the books with me because their stories are like, I put it together, but they’re the ones that are in the book. So I have everyone sign in the index next to their names, and I have five master copies of every one. So it’s just full of signatures. So that was really amazing. And so the podcast, as you said, was to kind of create a roadmap for others who are curious, like, how do you build a book tour? And what is it like to drive across the country alone, and you’re in the middle of moving and revisiting some memories from the original research tour because I drove to meet these people in the first place. And so yeah, it was, as you said, it was just a temporary kind of tidbit of life as an entrepreneur doing wild things

Unknown Speaker 11:53
to find

Unknown Speaker 11:55
So, so let’s dive into your entrepreneur. neuro coaching. And you know, I kind of understand your why, which is important for every entrepreneur to understand and be able to communicate and yours was so that others wouldn’t have to go through some of the struggles that you did, can’t you? There must have been some impetus or you know, some sparks or some things that that, you know, hey, as an entrepreneur myself, this isn’t my first rodeo. And I’m a, I’m a bootstrap startup of one I do everything. And every day I move forward on some things. But then every now and then there’s like, you know, Oh, my gosh, I did this update to this over here and why is it affecting that over there? They have nothing to do with each other. Ah, you know, just technology and trying to fit, you know, 20 pieces together to work all as one right? That’s challenging you If it’s your full-time job right away, and yeah, there’s lots of different struggles, you know, I could talk about but you know, this, this isn’t about me, but I get dug about in each of the businesses that I have found, you know, kind of some of the sparks the reasonings and the challenges that I had, and ultimately what came to its closure. So we heard a little bit about your technology business. But, you know, outside of it just being more that you wanted to focus on the book, were there any significant challenges in that business that that really kind of made you go, you know, what, I had this huge challenge. I overcame it. And was there something like that, that said, you know, that that created that, that initial spark to be an entrepreneur coach?

Unknown Speaker 13:52
Yeah. Well, so there is part of it.

Unknown Speaker 13:56
There are two ways to start a business there’s to start a business out of

Unknown Speaker 14:00
panic and just to have a business. And there’s a certain business because you had a passion. I never actually had a passion for tech. I have a knack for tech. I’m very good at Tech. But my degrees in anthropology, that’s why I’m writing these books because I am an anthropologist, I’m all about people. So my knack was target marketing, understanding other cultures for my clients, and really serving my clients in a way that was rooted in the heart rather than here’s a bunch of languages that you don’t understand. And we’re going to build you a website or we’re going to market you online and you don’t, you know, here’s some lingo and you’re done.

Unknown Speaker 14:42
And so that’s why that company was so successful, but my

Unknown Speaker 14:46
passion has always been around people. And so it was looking back through my life and noticing that I was the one that people were coming to for help. And then even more recently, as I was having success with the tech company, I was having a lot of people come to me And ask for help with scaling and business systems. I fought so hard for that knowledge. I was the one who was scared, wondering why I was like the rich and the poor and the rich and the poor and the rich and the poor. Trying to figure out why I was working 70 hours a week, even though I had started a business for more freedom. And so there’s this like herding cats. I’m on the hamster wheel, I can’t seem to get out of it. And so I fought and fought and fought where’s the knowledge? Because I know this is not the case for everyone. What am I missing? I was missing scaling, and the the the pieces of the business that need to be in place in order to scale and so I basically crawled myself out of the chasm that I had created, right. I had done it to myself and being at the top of the mountain finally and having what I had originally envisioned, felt so good, and I knew that There were other businesses like me, business leaders that wanted more freedom. But there was this rhetoric around. If you’re not hustling hard every day, then you’re not an entrepreneur. When in fact, if you’re hustling hard every day, there’s probably something broken in your business. And that’s okay. Because you have a business blind spot. We’ll figure it out. But it’s a symptom, not a success. And

Unknown Speaker 16:25
so, absolutely, yeah, I like to say, define success on your terms. Yes. Not based on someone else. Because, you know, if you live in New York City, whenever I was a consultant there, my clients would travel an hour and a half to get into work. They would be in by about 830 to nine o’clock in the morning. They wouldn’t leave till about nine o’clock at night. Yeah, many of them would have small apartments, you know, Pete to tears in the city, and then they would only go home on the weekends in or because if not, it’d be another hour and a half commute back. They wouldn’t get home into their bed until the earliest 11 pm. And, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs Yeah, you do work the hours, right? You because you are passionate. And if no one else if you can’t yet afford to hire people to delegate, that’s one of my key little things that you know, sometimes I love to listen to podcasts myself, that’s one of the ways I found you in addition to the group. And you know, whenever people I hear podcast podcasters, you know, in the business sector who say, Oh, well you know, in order to do this in this you need to delegate. Well, let’s back up first, okay, first before you can delegate unless you have a business partner who is in it sweat equity. You need, you need funding, you know from either an investor or loans or you know some level of capital or you need to have had traction on you know, with clients to have the income to pay that person that I go to delegate me even if you’re doing you know offshore tell you to know remote assistance I forget the exact name teller virtual assistant, thank you, virtual assistant, to the Philippines for six to $7 an hour Okay, you still have to have that money, you know, or you’re living on credit card debt which is very dangerous. So so i think you know, getting the foundation down into your, into your systems and so forth is you know, first foremost the strategy but the Find what success is for you. You know, if you’re if you’re happy working 12 hours a day, then you know, Buddha bless go forth, right. And by you know, for those of us one of my I always like to round out the shows How do you balance your life because again for me the it is what how you define it and to if you’re not taking care of yourself if you’re not, you know, eating properly going, going out seeing friends going for bike rides, going to the beach and going hiking in the mountains taking your significant other you know, at least out on a significant date night every other week at minimum and I mean something special not just ordering in pizza and sitting in Netflix guys and gals you know making that time for your, your hosts out so that you can show up. Because if you don’t have if you’re not taking care of yourself and those in your immediate realm of influence and love, then you’re not going to have the energy or the emotional bank account with everyone around you. You because when the shit hits the fan And you really do need to work those couple of 16 hour days. You don’t want your significant other threatening to divorce because they’ve been nagging you for six months already, you know?

Unknown Speaker 20:12
Yeah. end of the rope situation. Yeah. And you as you know from our previous chats, I’m massive

Unknown Speaker 20:21
Crusader for self-care and work-life balance, partly from my own hardships. I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from doing disaster relief for the US government. I can’t allow my stress to spike that high a bar is literally everything falls apart. And so self-care is one of the cornerstones of my business and one of the cornerstones I work on with my clients. And the same with work-life balance. So I mean, I think we’re jumping the gun a little about what my lifestyle looks like. But if it’s 6 pm, I’m turning off the computer. I’m not scheduling anything later than that. It’s over. That’s the day I usually cut out a little earlier than that because I pay a lot of attention to my attention or to my energy and make sure that it’s really, really good because I have to be at my best for my clients. And so my mornings are very important to me and then it just cut off. It’s done the works done no more.

Unknown Speaker 21:20
And yeah, that’s, that’s very, very, very important.

Unknown Speaker 21:23
Gotcha. So so what are some of the either biggest challenges you’re seeing with your, with your clients or just that you see, in general, that, you know, the lid, kind of take it in a phase depending on your, your client base, as well. But, you know, there’s definitely different phases to just launching a business and growing a business. And, you know, pardon me, we you know, some of the podcasts I hear some, some really big players. And so, you know, they’re talking about going, you know, scaling from the 1 million to the 5 million to the 10 million to the 50 to 100 million. But, you know, for, you know, when you look at the vast majority of businesses in, you know, just here in the United States, and this show, and the website is global, but, you know, I can only speak to what I know and stats that I know, so sorry, every everyone in the UK and Canada and Pakistan and Singapore and so forth, you’ll have to put it for you. But, you know, here in the US, you know, the vast majority of businesses are small businesses, probably hovering in you know, $200,000 a year range, you know, right at coffee shops and so forth. But so with the businesses that you focused on, you know, what are you seeing kind of the those For the starting up. And then, you know, and that scaling, you know, what are some of the issues that you’re seeing and maybe some key tips that you might be able to provide?

Unknown Speaker 23:12
Yeah. So there’s actually one issue that arises for every single entrepreneur across the board no matter what stage you are in, and no matter how many times you’ve done it before, and that’s imposter syndrome, especially for our community. But just in general, it doesn’t matter how many times you’ve done it, I have clients who are on their third business, and they still come to me because they’re looking for how to how to start or how to scale they’ve done it before, but because it suddenly looks different, they now aren’t sure that they have the skill sets to make it happen. And the same with scaling. So you have you’ve built the business, you’re in your third round of funding, you’re getting into new rooms, though, with the new levels of people who have bigger pockets, all of a sudden imposter syndrome kicks in, not because you aren’t successful already. But because now you’re in a room that you’ve never been in before. And your fear flight or fight mechanism starts to go off and say, I’m not supposed to be here.

Unknown Speaker 24:14
Ray Ray. Oh, I think we kind of got through the, through the story. But just in case I know what imposter syndrome is. But just in case, some of our viewers and listeners are like, whoa, wait, what’s that? I’m no, I’m no imposter. Could you give just a brief explanation in layman’s terms?

Unknown Speaker 24:34
Yeah, it’s the feeling that somehow you don’t belong in the room, or that you can’t do the thing that you’ve been asked to do. So a great example for me is that I won a really big contract at my tech company, and it was something that I had never done before. They asked me to build a type of website that was much more complex than I’d ever done before. And I said yes, because a lot of Logically I know, okay, I know how to research. I know where my resources are, I can figure it out. But the imposter syndrome starts rearing its head and saying, What if I fail? I can’t do this. Why did I take this contract on? What am I going to do? Because they’re going to eat my business for lunch. And then you start to have that cascade effect. And if it’s let’s,

Unknown Speaker 25:22
if it’s gone unchecked, imposter syndrome can turn into self-sabotage. And then that’s where we see entrepreneurs truly holding themselves back from success.

Unknown Speaker 25:31
Gotcha. A good way to explain it. They’re very good way and, you know, sometimes too, it’s, it’s, anytime you’re doing something a little bit new, a little bit, you know, maybe based on the foundation, like your example of, you know, you’ve had that experience and it’s based on something that you’ve done, but it’s just that little itty bitty stretch. That you know, you think to Do but it’s that little itty bitty stretch. And, you know, sometimes even what I found in, in trading with people is, you know, sometimes people just really have almost an affliction of imposter syndrome. And, you know, some of those, you know, a career coach could help. But you know, sometimes I’ll just also say, you know, things that are possibly even happened. If you have if you’re constantly having that doubt, I’m not good enough. I’m not worth one. There are great meditations that you can do. Look upon those also, perhaps even thinking about seeing a therapist help you get to the root cause of those internal feelings of not feeling adequate. You know, for an example, I was, I think, three I’ll say one of my exes grew up in an alcoholic, abusive parent home, verbally abusive, and constantly told he and his sister that they would never amount to anything and you know, you’re worthless, you won’t amount to anything that’s and then go off and beat the mother literally in front of them. And that left a very long-lasting impression to where he has has a very difficult time to change and believing in himself. And I think that’s a very important thing to, you know, to get to the root of, you know, especially if you are looking to be an entrepreneur is it’s okay to go out and ask for help. What have you and know that a life coach or business coach is not a therapist. They’re not licensed typically therapists although they might have some tips and suggestions on ways in which to deal with those underlying issues. But what we’re talking about is the imposter syndrome is when, you know, it’s not because of that kind of underlying, you know, issues come away from the best words you’re on the fly. But it’s really about as you stated, it’s like I’m stretching myself. And it’s a, it’s a uncomfort zone. And that fear and flight as you pointed, it kind of comes in and makes you feel uncomfortable. And, and it could be stretching yourself and things. You’ve done a little bit of pepper in the past, or it could be doing things that are completely new. Like out Bureau, there’s never been a website that allowed, that has allowed employees to rate their employers in the like fashion. And there’s never been an employer branding platform focusing on LGBT and So, every day, I just have to say, for me my imposter syndrome, the way I deal with it is, yo, bitch, no one else has done it. So, therefore, I am getting over it. It’s here, let’s move forward. I mean, it’s just a, you got to just feel the fear and do it anyway. And there’s one little thing for those of you that are feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome I’ve shared on another show with Larry, who is a dream coach, get to your next dream. And Sergeant Harry Tucker in the military, he told me to at the age of 18, was one of the most fundamental, amazing things anyone has ever said to me, and he said, never asked me permission for anything. Because if you do, the answer will always be no. Tell me what you are going to do. And I will tell you if I have a problem with it, and what a great way to live. You know You just take charge, go for it, feel the fear, and do it anyway because you know what the next person that that company is interviewing to possibly do that project that you’re bidding on, won’t have that level of confidence.

Unknown Speaker 30:16
That’s true. And so I want to make sure that we say that imposter syndrome is in fact normal. And it’s going to happen throughout your life because it’s a part of your fear flight or fight mechanism. So this is going to keep happening. And it’s okay that it keeps happening, to know your triggers, and to work on them so that you shore them up, so it’s less likely to happen, but you can recognize it when it does. And I also offer several meditations that you can find on my website in order to work through imposter syndrome. So I’m happy to share those as well. And yeah, it’s not something that you have to fight against. It’s something that you can learn from And then grow with.

Unknown Speaker 31:01
Absolutely. And there’s anyone who is a parent. I’m an adoptive parent, I have an 1110 and a half year old. And when you get real when a parent gets real with you, even your own parents, if they get real with you, they’re going to tell you, they don’t have a clue what they’re doing. They’re making it up as they go. And many, many parents feel imposter syndrome. They although those words aren’t what are used, necessarily, and I’ll see

Unknown Speaker 31:35

Unknown Speaker 31:36
but but it’s the exact same thing. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 31:39
Exactly. Oh, just know that, that it’s not just in business. It’s in life in general. And you know, you could even feel imposter syndrome in relationships, just your personal relationship, like, you know, wow, he’s, he’s interested in me, okay, you know, or you know, whatever that might be but you know, you It can be throughout, in many perilous covery

Unknown Speaker 32:03
the fear of being discovered as an imposter, even though you are who you are.

Unknown Speaker 32:09
Right, right. And so what a great way What a great thing to attempt to understand. And, and, and focus on conduct, I mean, controlling to the best of your ability understanding. So it doesn’t affect you negatively because it affects so much of your life not just being an entrepreneur. Right. So definitely, we’ll have links to your website and those great meditations that you offered there. And so what is your typical timeframe or is there a typical timeframe or typical process that you do with your entrepreneurial clients?

Unknown Speaker 32:51
Yeah, so I typically work with clients for six months, although some of them have been with me for over a year and some of them will create Rate something a little bit more custom, because what they need is a little boost into the next level. And that’s it. But typically when you’re talking about scaling, and not just the nuts and bolts of scaling in the business, the consulting part, but also the entrepreneurial life coaching, as they’re up-leveling, and so they’re probably experiencing some sort of limiting belief and imposter syndrome. So that takes time and takes work. And so I found that the sweet spot is six months in order to get all the things in place in order for that scaling process to happen, and also develop the personal skills and abilities in order to make it happen with an entrepreneur as well. But from there, it’s quite custom because every entrepreneur is different. Some entrepreneurs are just starting their business. And so I’m working with them to start scaled, while others are in the process of buying their first warehouse. And so they’re scaling to a point where they have employees and they’re taking it to the next level on a national wholesale level. So everyone’s kind of in a different place. I have my trademark three pillars of business scaling and that’s what I use with my clients as the guidepost. But what happens within that is all very custom to the client.

Unknown Speaker 34:15
Okay, well wonderful, wonderful. Well if you do you Is it all individual? The guy do you have like group discussions or you know, like a mastermind learning session? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:33
I do I have a mastermind is called the disruptive mastermind. And we get together on Mondays it’s actually a free mastermind I asked you know, if you if you’re gonna stick around and come quite often, there’s a link to buy me a coffee because I am offering it’s kind of just in support of my entrepreneurial community on Facebook. So if you want to join us were in the disruptive entrepreneur society on Facebook and We’d have a weekly Monday mastermind where you can come in and grab a hot seat and get coached by myself and some of your colleagues.

Unknown Speaker 35:08
Wonderful. Is that a like a live video? That’s on

Unknown Speaker 35:12
zoom? Okay, yeah. Yep see zoom and then link into that to do your live session.

Unknown Speaker 35:19
Yeah, so yeah, the group is on Facebook and then the event is in zoom. Oh, gotcha.

Unknown Speaker 35:24
Okay, cool, cool. Well, any of that that you’d like to ensure that gets in the show notes over there’s links to

Unknown Speaker 35:33
make definitely I think anybody and up euro would be completely welcome and bring something probably really magnificent to the group and we’re so honored and help ready to help you get to your next level.

Unknown Speaker 35:45
Awesome. Awesome. Well as to where there is just for your yourself and others, there are groups on out here calm Are you are calm. groups on OutBuro can be over When and where they are searchable by the search engines indexable by the search engines, they can also be private so that people can see that they are available. But they can’t see the content plan except being a member. But also just in case you’d like to ever utilize or would like to join or maybe start an offshoot. We also have private secret groups, which only members of the group even though it exists. Now, of course, on the admin sign, admin side, I can see that it’s there. But you know, publicly, people can see that it’s there. As well as I’ve been mentioning, in the session that is often very perfect for you is on every profile, you’re able to indicate whether you are open to being a mentor to others, would you be very pertinent for yourself, and you could say you’re open to being a mentor for you. For another and you’re and you’re a coach so that they understand it, it’s not it’s a paid relationship there some, some are not paid. And people can also indicate whether they would like a mentor. So for everyone out there if you’re not quite sure you know about it, go ahead and indicate on your profile that you would like to have a mentor and indicate the areas because we’ve already have spoken with Matthew, who is a career coach and helps you with your resume. We’ve talked with Timothy of Timothy’s Stahl’s, nutrition who is a holistic health coach and helps you with your nutrition and diet, especially those with compromised immune systems. We have talked with Larry who is the first gay per out gay person to sail around the world and he helps you transition to your next big idea of its retirement not focusing on the money but your next big move. And now we have you who focuses on the entrepreneurs and growing and staging. And as I as I’ve shared, I’ve really have focused on having coaches here my first sessions of launching out euro voices because I personally have had a year where I was privileged and had, I was working at Mirage resorts in Las Vegas. And I was helping to start a whole new portion of their IT department and they paid for life for a business life coach to come in for a whole year and work with all management from like my level up and it had a very pronounced

Unknown Speaker 38:58
difference in my career.

Unknown Speaker 39:01
In that coaching that I had with him, his name was Joseph. Within just three sessions, he was like, why are you here? I get why you’re here, but why are you here? You know, you need to be doing it. You’re doing amazing things you should be out doing this as a consultant, being a director in a consulting business, doing your own business, for goodness sakes, you know, you could be earning 678 10 times the amount of money that you are here. And sure enough, within a year, you know, things happen, the universe happens for a reason. And I got that all the systems and processes in place to a point where and I had staff to where they could literally lay me off when times got tough, because all my staff knew exactly what to do the processes and the systems were in place, and they could go a while without the department head. Well, that landed me or that right as that was happening. And the conversations that I had with Joseph gave me the courage to put my resume out. And I was picked up as a division director for a consulting firm. So I went from being we’ll just say, I doubled my income overnight. And then I went from that job within two years to launch my own business that within three years was running $12 million dollars a year in revenue. So but it all started really with that life coach, because outside of Harry Tucker, who I mentioned earlier, you know, don’t ever Don’t ask me permission for anything guy. This was the first this is the kind of the first person as a life coach who really helped me see my I own my worth in the sense of I’m not worthy, but my worth and in what I was doing professionally So, you know, and helping me see that clearly. And so that’s why I think it is so important. You know if you have the opportunity to reach out to life, business coach, health coach, career coach, someone that can look at your life and your situation and your business objective objectively. And you know, because as an entrepreneur, you’re taking your example as an entrepreneur, we get so weeded down, and in that my new shot of the day and the year so passionate about what you’re doing, and it’s your baby and no one wants to hear that their baby is ugly, right? You want to this is this is my business. This is my leaving alone allowed. And you know, but having someone like yourself, come in and say you know, you Well, in order to get where you want where you say you really want to be, here’s why to work and helping them along the way.

OutBuro Voices Interview Christopher Berno LGBT Entrepreneur Professional Media Tech Startup Business Owner Video Interview Podcast

Christopher Berno – LGBT Entrepreneur Serial Startup CEO

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Christopher Berno, an LGBT entrepreneur serial startup CEO, has worked in technology his whole career. He applies knowledge gained from past corporate jobs and past startups as accumulative wisdom to fresh and innovative startup. His entrepreneurial spirit thrives in dreams while rooted in the foundation of understanding dreams or ideas must have a practical application and solve some problems in order to gain traction In business. Investors today do rarely fund an idea. And entrepreneur must be able to either alone or through a team assemble an MVP (minimum value product) that gains traction and can be improved upon along the way. Just watch Shark Tank and you will see that investors want to know what revenue the company has already had to date. You must also understand your direct and indirect competitors as well as have a good understanding of the size of your achievable market.

Christopher on OutBüro >>

Experienced Co-Founder with a demonstrated history of working in the online media industry. Skilled in Customer Acquisition, Sales, Contact Centers, Management, and Start-ups. Strong business development professional and leader of people, process and technology. 

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CityScreen TV Interactive Media Christopher Berno LGBT entrepreneur gay business founder ceo professional community leader mentor

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Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hi there. This is Dennis Velco with OutBüro at Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of OutBüro voices where we have fascinating and interesting, impromptu dialogue with interesting LGBT professionals, entrepreneurs and community leaders. Today we have the privilege of being joined by Christopher Berno, who is a lifelong entrepreneur. So we’re going to have some interesting stories to get to thank you so much for joining us today, Christopher.

Unknown Speaker 0:41
Dennis, good to see you. Thank you for having me.

Unknown Speaker 0:43
Absolutely. Absolutely. And as I love to do is get right in and start talking a little bit about your history. So if you could just give us a little bit of background to help familiarize and set the frame for our conversation today.

Unknown Speaker 0:58
Yeah, sure. I’d be happy to Thanks again for having me today. I think the work you’re doing is so important for so many different reasons. And so I just want to at the very onset, just say, first of all, thank you. And it’s a real honor to to be a part of it. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:12
Well, I appreciate it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:15
So, in terms of just kind of background in history, my career started right out of college. I went to school in southern Ontario. I’m Canadian, originally. And right after graduation, I got an undergraduate degree in psychology and immediately upon graduation got into the technical workspace, I guess I was brought on to work with Barnes and And just to kind of give some context, and some timeframes here, we’re talking about the late 90s. So what did that look like in terms of technology? Well, cell phones were, I think, you know, I think my dad had his cell phone in his car at that point that was hardwired, right. So people were not walking around with their cell phones in hands like they are today. There was certainly no Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. Not only was it there was no MySpace. Really the internet at that point AOL was was was happening I guess then

Unknown Speaker 2:13
I do remember that that era? Yeah, I think

Unknown Speaker 2:16
it’s really important context, right? Because if you’re I mean, I’m in my late 40s now so that context really matters because younger people watching this aren’t maybe you know, aren’t going to really understand what it meant to get into technology in the 90s. Like it meant getting into technology today. So that’s why I bring that up. But Barnes and was my first kind of foray into the technology world and what a cool time and space to be, I mean, but you know, Barnes and Noble is obviously a national brand obviously, a household brand name right. You know, when I say Barnes and Noble, you know, what they do, but back in the 90s that was it was time for a massive transition from, you know, selling books on shelves in iconic stores on Main Street. To transitioning that to the web and everything from the distribution, from the sale online too, you know, distribution and getting that book from point A to point B. So that was really my first kind of foray into tech. And I got to kind of work my way up through the ranks there. And by the time I left Barnes and Noble, I was the manager of distribution and e-commerce. So basically managing all of the touchpoints from the time the customer ordered the book online to the time that the customer received their book, and, you know, a lot of touchpoints back then. One thing I do want to say about that timeframe, which was kind of interesting is that you know, Amazon was not a household name then. Right, and just kind of looking back. It’s kind of cool to remember, and I was part of this too, and certainly, you know, hindsight is 2020. And I think Steve Jobs said, you can only connect the dots looking back but at the time, I remember actually Amazon being mocked by my superiors You know, that the senior leadership team at Barnes and Noble and I remember one particular all-hands meeting where they are saying like, oh, does anybody want a toaster, you know, with that bestseller. And what they were implying was that it’s just silly to have this place where you can go and get everything you need on one website, we’re going to focus on books and slowly books. And now history, you know, has a way of showing who the winner is going to be in those scenarios, right. And looking back, you know, it’s really it was really, you don’t realize that at the time, but you’re learning so much, you know, as you’re even if you do have a job with a company, you’re not ready to be an entrepreneur yet that you can soak up so much learning during that process of working for other companies and, you know, finding opportunity in other companies. But I belabored that, but Barnes and was an incredible learning experience for me. I got recruited out of there with out of San Francisco, and it’s funny used to mean something like, you know, it’s like kind of the, what we used to call startups that you working for Right, right. We’re the bubble burst of 2001 but it was a wireless company called Omni sky and what a cool I mean just going from, you know, a household major brand like Barnes and Noble to a startup that basically no one’s heard of before Omni and basically what they did as cell phones were starting to take on more popularity and more and more people were adopting cell phone technology and mobile in their hands. It was still it was only voice at that point in time so if you take a time machine back now to say to 1999 or 2000 cell phones were in people’s hands but all it was voice. So again, context it might be hard for someone like a millennial or you know, Gen Gen Z to wrap their mind around but a mobile device all it was voice there was no chat. You certainly weren’t sending files and you certainly weren’t watching video you were talking and that’s about it. And what these guys did back in 2000 was create a cradle if you want for your phone, which allowed you to connect to the internet and move data with cellular packets. So it was the very first time that you could actually transmit text data as we do now with text messages. And at that time, it was just so monumental. And it was an absolute no brainer for me to take that job. And I was managing their technical support operations. And so like I said, it was a San Francisco based startup called nice guy. And that was just such a great experience to in a different way. I’ll say one thing that’s, you know, a pivotal moment in my career was September 11. And, you know, it’s just I remember that day, I remember where I was, and we had so many of our customers were actually in, you know, the World Trade Centers and literally within two weeks of September 11 2001, we were, you know, we were closed

Unknown Speaker 6:51

Unknown Speaker 6:52
Yeah, really fascinating and it’s

Unknown Speaker 6:56
tragic and, but, but fascinating and great lessons. Well

Unknown Speaker 7:00
You know, what’s interesting is that, you know, yes, that was devastating to a building and several buildings around. I actually lived in New York at the time, and was just blocks. You know, I actually had people from that area, because I, one of my clients was Deutsche Bank. And it was right across the street. I don’t know if you recall, back when that was happening. On TV, there would be this big dark, almost black, it was very dark brown building that had the American flag on it. I do and they kept showing, well, that was the Deutsche Bank building, and so that I was there and I was there. I was working on that client during all of this. And so I had actually and then I had friends who lived right across the street, closer to the harbor area. And so when my ex and I we Got a condo apartment on 10th? And between 10th and ninth on 20. Oh, well, so you,

Unknown Speaker 8:08
Chelsea? Well, we were like considered Chelsea.

Unknown Speaker 8:13
Just as the galleries were going into that area moving up to that area and so actually had people walk because you couldn’t get a taxi you could obviously couldn’t do subway. And so they would they actually walked to our apartment. So, within about two hours of all of that happening, we had three people, three additional people. One couple who lived there and one guy that was work was on his way to work in the building, get diverted and going, Oh my god, I can’t go back all the way to Brooklyn where I lived. So can I come to your place? And we’re like, yeah, crazy. So but but what’s interesting is is that having that happen to us To that to that building and the surrounding area affected so, so, so much that they had to close their doors, you know, you would think that those businesses like, you know, it didn’t shut down Deutsche Bank, it didn’t shut down, you know, those other businesses. So, you know, we don’t have to necessarily get into that. I just thought that that was very interesting that that event would have caused that calm to go under.

Unknown Speaker 9:25
Indeed, and I think it’s just things change. All right. I mean, things change things, change in global economies, things change in markets, things change in your home, things change in life. And I think, you know, I couldn’t have been on a higher high in my career at that point in time, right. And to go from just in terms of income, autonomy, excitement for the product for the future to unemployed, you know, in in San Francisco and really not sure what’s next because nobody was hiring that. I mean, I mean, it was, there are a lot of parallels to what’s happening happening today with COVID. I mean, I wouldn’t eat I don’t think you can’t go apparent, but in terms of just the amount of change that’s happening, I mean, I’d say that this is 100 times, September 11, in terms of change that’s coming down the pipeline as a result of it, but the world changed that day. And you know, as well as I do, and I’m sure people who are old enough to remember that here can relate to that. But it’s important the lesson and the takeaway from that is that things do change, right. And that can be great for in terms of creating new opportunity for new startups, you know, one thing leads to another and the rest of the story really is that’s kind of, you know, going through that September 11 experience and being unemployed, and really kind of propelled me into the work that I’m doing today and got me into, you know, the hosting industry, which was really, you know, in its early, early days, back then, if you, you know, even trying to explain something like a domain name to somebody back in 2000. You know, I would get it a lot like, Well, what do I need a domain name for? What do I need a web page for the Yellow Pages. You know, I can get a newspaper ad like I don’t need your you know, your Um, your witchcraft website stuff? Yes. Can you remember those times? I mean, it was real. I mean, that was silly today, but it was real back then.

Unknown Speaker 11:09
Oh, yeah, I can remember I’ve owned a couple of, you know, dot coms and have tried it, you know, the entrepreneurial thing was trying to launch things and having to try to explain to family members and friends. It’s like, well, you have your website, why do you need a domain name? Well, that’s the URL, the address that you put in? And then what is this hosting? Well, you

Unknown Speaker 11:33
already have a

Unknown Speaker 11:34
domain name you talked about, why are you Why do you need to spend more money on hosting because that’s where the files reside on. You know, it’s just like, oh, mg, trying to explain it. Getting back to your your, your point on for for the younger folks out there. Talking about the history, you kind of brought back a memory of mine like to share for a moment and came up in the military working in computers and helped open the very first technology calling center help desk or fifth corps military based in Frankfurt and so forth. And so I was working first on 286 is, and we were so excited when 386 has come out. Okay, folks out there, look it up.

Unknown Speaker 12:21
You don’t know what I’m

Unknown Speaker 12:21
talking about. I’m gonna have to look it up. I think 3d suck it up.

Unknown Speaker 12:24
Yeah. Well, and before that was a 286. It was a processor speed. Oh. And so you know, we’re talking back When, when, you know, there wasn’t even Microsoft right now. And so that was really funny. So I was used to using dos based commands to get things done and your your word processor was totally text based. There was no there was no mouse, there was no visual interface. It was all text on the screen. And I when I my ex and I came back from Germany, I started working for this company, I helped build their, their database in their marketing group. And I remember this one day, he and I went to some friend’s house. And Jeff and Jeff. And Jeff, they they say, Jeff, the hottie. He was also into computers. And he’s like, hey, Dennis, you know, because you knew I was into technology as well. He goes, Hey, Dennis, come up here want to show you something on my computer? And I’m like, sure. He goes, like this. It’s called Windows. I was like, Oh, my God. That’s that. That’s magical. I mean, it was, yeah, it was like Windows 3.1 or something. And so from that point on, it was like, Yeah, I mean, I remember the very day that I first got introduced to Windows And that was like back in 1991 or 92. So, yeah, we’ve come we’ve come a long way, haven’t we?

Unknown Speaker 14:10
Yeah. And I think that’s really important. Those are really important lessons. I think everyone’s you know, future focused, which is great. But at the end of the day, the technology’s changed. But humans haven’t. I mean, I’m not a I’m not a biologist or an anatomist. But our brains have not changed the way the computer chip has changed, right. Our processing power has not kept up with Moore’s Law, like what you just talked about. There’s no brain to 86 386 46 I mean, our our ability to intake information, process information and input information as humans really hasn’t changed that much, but the technology around us has. So that context that you’re talking about, that’s why history does matter, in my opinion, Dennis and that’s why, like if I could, that’s why I’m so passionate and so grateful to be able to be here because that’s the advice I want to share is that it doesn’t matter. You need to look back in order to be able to look forward well. You do need to look back like when the TV was introduced if you’re if you are looking to be an entrepreneur and you are looking to bring valuable products to market because at the end of the day, humans have not changed in the past 500 years technology sure as hell has. But we have not our brains to process the same way. So going back and understanding how societies took to the radio how societies took to TV how societies took to Sony Walkmans, how societies took the cell phones, to web to mobile, it really matters and it can really help you provide context and help you you know, formulate your plan and your products if you are looking to get into starting up a company. So looking back matters, and I think us old guys have a lot to offer in that regard. Because I think when I talk to people who don’t pay attention and don’t go look back,

Unknown Speaker 15:52
they’re missing an opportunity, I think, I believe,

Unknown Speaker 15:55
yeah, I totally can see that point. You know, having a little bit of an understanding of the sociology and psychology and you know that’s a, the more you understand and or yourself or the more you you read you listen to podcasts about it or you have someone on your team or within your realm of being a mentor or friend who has that kind of perspective is important because you’re right there has to be that point of understanding how it fits within the scope and the realm of products and services and also the the the adaptability but the adoption of products and services you know, how does this mesh with where we are today, and you know, unless you’re a real unless you have the money, you know, for you know, for example, Apple when they first came out with Their eye, their their iPod, you know, music in this tiny, tiny box was like the size of my, you know hand, right? Tiny, but you could store digital music. But no one knew you wanted to do that. Now, the good thing is, is that app, Apple had the bank account and the wallet to to

Unknown Speaker 17:25
create the demand.

Unknown Speaker 17:28
You know, if you’re if you’re a bootstrap startup, if you’re creating something that’s never been out there before, you have to see where the gaps are, and fill a gap. And then do really great, you know, bootstrap marketing and so forth to get there. But if you follow just on the cusp of the trends, and then create what’s called a minimum value product, to test that introduction of that product and then improve it over time, as as it gets adopted, and you start getting those Early, early customers, so let’s kind of transition into, you know, city screen. Tell us a little bit about that. And, you know, kind of the, the the why, what, what started that for you? I’m always interested in understanding the why because it’s the driver that keeps you focused and working on something even though that you might have naysayers.

Unknown Speaker 18:26
Sure, I think,

Unknown Speaker 18:29
you know, just in terms of the why, I know. Well, I learned you learn a lot right as you go. And part of that learning process to is learning what I what I like to do, what what I’m good at what other people thought I was good at, but also what kind of got me up in the morning and got me, you know, really jazzed about what I was going to work on that day, that week, that quarter. And over time in the in the hosting industry, I, you know, just was fortunate enough to have some great mentors, kind of helped me develop my leadership skills and as a result of that, you know, took on more responsibility. Growing teams globally working on different continents and working as an X pack just tons and tons of learning kind of lead up to helping me understand what really what mattered to me the most in terms of my career and what I wanted to do. And I really, I found, you know, as I was taking assignments working for in the hosting space, was that I got just naturally kind of thrown into the worst kind of problem situations that they had, right. And that’s where people just kind of put me and but it really gravitated to that I kind of gravitated to where the action was. I was not a maintainer, I learned that about myself, I was not about, you know, like a lot of managers these days are just about doing more faster, better, more faster, better, more, faster, better. And that’s great. But there’s, you know, diminishing returns on that at some point before you start burning people out and you start burning systems out and you start just burning out. I know. And the reason I’m an entrepreneur now and the reason I’m an I’m a serial CEO of startups, Yo now is because I like that that ramp. And that’s kind of you know, I totally agree

Unknown Speaker 20:06
I get it like

Unknown Speaker 20:09
To me it’s revealed to me that that build phase taking nothing taking absolutely nothing but an idea and creating a brand. They’re creating a brand creating brand recognition and seeing that take root, you know, take hold and take root and start to grow. And and knowing that all of your efforts are you’re seeing your efforts come to fruition I so rewarding. It’s like that is it and yeah, so sorry. I didn’t mean I don’t mean to cut you out. They’re just like, That, to me is like the most exciting thing when things get to be so routine. That’s why I’m a horrible employee.

Unknown Speaker 20:57

Unknown Speaker 20:57
duly noted the guys

Unknown Speaker 21:00
If it’s routine, I’m a fab. I’m a fantastic consultant. Like you parachuting in to problem situations in my past career I was really well known for that. So you can take the worst account with the worst personalities the worst situation where projects were way over budget under delivering and hostile clients I would parachute and within three months have it turned around and have them sign a new contract because they love the work but put me in the put me in the same situation where even working in a large corporation where I have to go to work every day. And and it’s doing the same thing processing the same kind of answering the same kind of questions routine, routine routine. Oh my gosh, you might as well slit my wrists and put me in the ground.

Unknown Speaker 21:54
But you know what, though, Dennis, you know, what’s important is that those people like I wouldn’t have the same level of success that I have to Without those maintainers right without though that is so critical in a business, right? It is those people who have that because you take some people and you put them into the startup scene, and they just go bananas, right? Like it’s late, they got it. It’s too crazy. So if there is people if there are people watching that are those maintainers and really good strong leaders that kind of take the torch and take it into the next five years. Those are the people that make us the money really, because they, you know, they rally the troops and keep people focused on the prize and the end game and moving towards that constantly improving. that’s invaluable to me. So those people are wicked valuable. It’s just not me. Or do apparently,

Unknown Speaker 22:39
yeah, well, well, and I don’t mind like like I could see out

Unknown Speaker 22:43
Euro in in you know, I have a growth plan as revenue comes on. But it’s it’s the to put it like my ex of 17 years. He was he’s he’s a software developer and hit you know, his idea of security is, is being employed by someone going in and sitting in a cubicle, where he has, you know, Suzy on one side and Joe on the other and he sees them every day. And you know, he’s working on a project that management has given him. And and that’s okay. I’m not that’s not I’m not trying to be negative. I’m just saying that that which is actually one of the huge contentions in our personal relationship because we’re, he is that kind of a person that had to have routine routine, routine, routine routine. And I’m the kind of person who thrives on change, and a risk taker. And so

Unknown Speaker 23:44
yeah, I’m not I’m not a good employee.

Unknown Speaker 23:48
It does take a village. I know that’s a no, it’s a political. I don’t mean to politicize anything here, but it does take a village really to grow an empire. It does. It does. And so, and a lot of one of the problems I find with a lot of startup communities is that they alienates you know, it’s all about that startup that idea. Ideas are worthless dentists, they’re worthless until they’re acted upon and to get them to a point where you’ve got traction in the marketplace. It takes a village, it takes a unique team. And part of being, you know, a great entrepreneur is assembling that team. So I believe startup community should be there should be just as many operations managers, career operations, managers, directors, you know, customer service people, I want those people on my startup teams, I look for them, because you can have 1000 idea people around you you’re not getting shit done. And I’m sorry, you can beat that out. Now. 1150 I need to take a two second break. Can we can we put a time marker here? I’m so sorry. But I’ve got a power issue and I need to. Yeah, no worries. And timeout. Yep, sure.

Unknown Speaker 24:47
I can just cut this out.

Unknown Speaker 25:01
So, that brings us I guess to you know, the project that I’m working on now. So as a kind of a serial startup CEO and that’s kind of how I positioned myself in the market. I selected this particular project to work on for a bunch of different reasons. But what basically we’re working on now it’s kind of mashing up if you look at you know, mobile phones today, you look at tablets, even desktop computers, laptops, there’s those screens have so much interactivity to them, you’re you’re either it’s either got touchscreen capabilities, or you know, we’re texting sending files, but our our biggest screens are TV screens that are in our living rooms, and waiting rooms and all over the everywhere we look really, they’re pretty much still a one way street in terms of transmission informations flowing from a central server, you know, out and the flow is going one way and what city screen does is create a kind of an abstract layer on top of the TV that makes your TV work a whole lot more like your phone or your tablet. And really kind of changes your living room experience. So by incorporating gaming functionality, transmitting information, really kind of socializing the entertainment space, more so call it like a second screen experience. So as you’re watching your favorite reality TV show, you can now watch it with your friends and family. And also creates a tremendous amount of advertising, really contextual advertising opportunities for brands and advertisers that want to connect, and really provide the audiences with really cool new experiences that were never possible before on TV. So it’s a really exciting space. It’s new, kind of, to your point a little bit earlier, Dennis, it’s it’s much easier when you have a budget to create the demand. I think that’s the term that you used a few minutes ago and that was very well put, I think that’s where you know, we struggle the most right now is creating the demand and the way you do that is by showing people what it’s capable of. So it’s um, it’s a really exciting space to be in right now. And, you know, hopeful that that the next three or four years are going to create a tremendous amount of opportunity. Um, if I may just one point I want to put remember we talked about a few minutes ago around change in September 11. And I think, you know, what we’ve gone through together collectively as residents of planet Earth, you know, COVID-19. And that’s their thing. That’s just another example of massive change. And one of the interesting things for us is, as we were creating, you know, interactive second screen applications for smart TVs or smart TV app, but COVID-19 has really changed. And we realized, you know, as we were down and you know, this year, we’re supposed to be about getting the MVP to market and really starting to connect with our audiences and our advertisers. I mean, that was all halted in March. It kind of took us back to the drawing board and really what we understood is that we’ve got a product here that allows us to interact with TV and in public areas and retail locations in doctors offices. In schools allow you to interact with much, much, much bigger screens at scale and interact with large audiences with big screens without any kind of touching, right? You don’t have to touch the screen. You use your mobile phone and interact with the screen, you can gain you can take coupons with you, you can download files from that big screen onto your phone. And so my point is that sometimes when it looks really awful, and another there’s a lot of Believe me, it’s hurt us. It’s we’ve had to go back to our board and our investors and explain, you know, what we’re doing with this time, it’s their money. Right? And but really kind of interesting, because now we can come back to the marketplace when the time’s right, which is sooner than later, I believe and show that we’re capable of a whole lot more than we even thought we were capable of as a result of, you know, COVID-19 and having some time to reevaluate.

Unknown Speaker 28:52
Oh, very, very interesting. I don’t know if it’s on your radar, but it just popped in my head, as which is how the Conversations go.

Unknown Speaker 29:02
But the not only, you know, the the

Unknown Speaker 29:06
one is, you know, like being in a doctor’s office and being able to, you know, have on the screen, you know, information, maybe the doctor, there was a doctor in Columbus, Ohio that is while sitting in the waiting room. He always had health information on, like YouTube channels of health information, and then he would come on and talk about it. But you know, like, in today’s time, too, you know, you probably don’t want to be sitting in the doctor’s waiting room if you’re even allowed anymore. You may have to be sitting in your car waiting. But you know, those magazines don’t touch them. Because you don’t know who’s who’s been there before and what what illness they had and it was, you know, now now in retrospect was kind of gross and creepy to begin with.

Unknown Speaker 29:59
It does seem like there’s that Funny, I was just thinking that the other day too is like something like, it just seems gross to touch that.

Unknown Speaker 30:05
Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 30:05
another thing to just again off the top of my head is I recall reading a news article, probably now close to eight or nine months ago,

Unknown Speaker 30:18
where you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 30:19
sorry, McDonald’s but, um, you know, there’s those touchscreens that they have in a lot of McDonald’s where you can order your food, they, they did samplings of those, and the vast majority of all of them had, you know, fecal matter on it. So, you know, poop particles from people going to the restroom, and or not even there, but previously to that, and then, you know, using their fingers on those screens, and so that’s a touch point. Now, that could that we have recognized could also transmit COVID you know, in addition to that, other particles And so that would be interesting to, you know, as you’re looking at your technology in what you’re doing is, you know, possibly how to create an interactive menu for restaurants of all sizes. To take advantage of this and be able to, you know, to order while they’re standing, you know, in line or you know, beforehand.

Unknown Speaker 31:29
Yeah, just for the more technical people and even if you’re not if you want to research it, first of all, we’re city screen TV comm not to plug shamelessly sorry, Dennis, but no more your logos

Unknown Speaker 31:38
right there.

Unknown Speaker 31:40
More importantly, would be if you’re interested in the technology that drives it, we do work on open source we’ve assembled the open source technology in a way that creates a valuable brings tons of valuable value to the market. But if you want to research we’re running on That’s kind of the open source technology that we’re using to power our Smart TV or Smart TV to mobile applications. So it’s socket IO technology and it allows you to create these touchless experiences. And you’re right, Dennis. I mean, yeah, I mean, I, those seems so modern last year walking into a Burger King or McDonald’s and seeing those screens and then, you know, just directed the order to that, but I wouldn’t touch that thing with a with your finger today, you know, like, no, and so yeah, I think the future is very, very bright. And it it that was not on our radar.

Unknown Speaker 32:30
Last year at this time.

Unknown Speaker 32:33

Unknown Speaker 32:34
this is opening up possibly, indeed new opportunities and creating, obviously then not only the opportunity for you to think about the the new fields, new new ways in which it could be used.

Unknown Speaker 32:51
But then creating the demand,

Unknown Speaker 32:53
right, indeed,

Unknown Speaker 32:54
you know, very, very, very interesting. It’s gonna be an interesting ride.

Unknown Speaker 33:01
So if you could, you know, as an as a serial entrepreneur, what has been some of the kind of the biggest challenges whether in this particular company city screen TV comm, or, or others that you’ve had, you know, so, you know, so maybe someone is, is out there and looking at this time and saying, you know, maybe they’re out of a job, or they realize the volatility of their employment. And maybe they’re saying, you know, maybe that idea I have is time to go for it. What are some perhaps, tips or things that you would you would say, you know, pay close attention to or be conscious of, or, you know, what kind of advice would you have for a budding entrepreneur?

Unknown Speaker 33:58
Well, first of all around ideas because that’s where it starts right?

Unknown Speaker 34:03
I said it earlier I said ideas are useless. And I said that a little bit flippantly. But at the end of the day, it’s it’s it’s very easy to get, there’s all these startup forums that are are flourishing, right. And they’re going to absolutely grow exponentially as a result of what we’ve been through with lockdown and stuff like that people coming up with ideas, getting into these communities trying to sell them. But the bottom line is that those ideas need to have plans formulated around them, teams formulated around them, and plans and put in place and then executed against in order for them to kind of get any value. There are people that will disagree with me on that. But my experience shows because I’ve failed colossally trying to pitch ideas in the heyday of kind of pitching right and, and did the circuit globally, which costs me and my organization’s dearly so learn from my mistakes, if you will. Don’t pitch ideas you need to pitch product so really understand the problem that your product is solving. I we’d encourage you, if you next time you’re talking to an entrepreneur or start, just ask them that simple question, what problem is out bureau solving? What problem is city screen solving? What problem is company x solving with that product? And you’d be surprised how many people get tripped up on that simple answer. So really understand that and then understand what the what the value of that solution is to that population of people or what, whether you’re making plant food or whatever it is, what what is the, what’s the market for that? How many people are affected by that problem. And if you can, if you can connect those two dots, then you can start to get really smart people paying attention to you. But so many people missed that point. They’re so hung up on the idea and get so emotionally attached to the idea. And then and then they can’t figure out why someone’s not willing to write a $3 million check or a $300,000 check for them and it just doesn’t work that way. People make it look very easy. You know, and I think that’s part of probably a marketing it’s not it’s not it. I’m not trying to make it sound harder than it has to be, but you really have to do the work.

Unknown Speaker 36:05
Oh, absolutely, absolutely is. You know, you always hear about the success stories, you know, in ink magazine and And it sounds like these companies just sprung up overnight and are an overnight success and they’re not. There’s possibly years and years behind them. And even even because an entrepreneurs journey is typically not one hit unicorn wonders, right? You typically like yourself. I’ve had a couple of companies myself in the past and different focusing on different areas. And but each was a learning opportunity. And you know, what I took away from serving fortune 100 fortune 1000 level or fortune 500 level companies and technology and business processing. I put into practice Here what I learned running in a state sale business actually where I had to attract both the home owner estate owner and a following of people in a city that would literally follow me every other week around the city, you know is like wow that’s like getting a following online. And because these folks would come out, snow, rain or sleet because they knew I always took the best best clients best homes. And they loved my all I tried to always have mid century modern, which is my thing, but any rate is a unique to see exactly a problem. And there’s there’s a lot of ways to kind of analyze that. And I encourage folks to check out several articles on out bureau comm Again, that’s OUT bu r There, there’s tips for You know, if you’d like to be an entrepreneur thinking about, you know, ideas, there’s an article on doing what’s called SWOT, that is your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, evaluating market space. It gives you great advice on doing that. And even give the example of you need to really look at all of your potential competitors and your competitors, you know, are are things you may not even realize. So, so we talked about that, for example, you’re also competing with as a gym, for example. So let’s say you want to start a gym. So part of your competitors is YouTube,

Unknown Speaker 38:48
and Facebook, because

Unknown Speaker 38:51
if someone is sitting on their couch just twiddling away on on Facebook, then they’re not in your gym. Now, you know, you might Like that, because they’re still paying their monthly fees, but but you know, so it talks about looking at your, your competitive space and really thinking about more than just your, your direct competitors, but your indirect competitors as well and even people who might think of you as a competitor, even though you don’t think of them and what that helps with all of that there’s also articles on creating a business plan.

Unknown Speaker 39:29
Looking at your marketing and so forth.

Unknown Speaker 39:33
And what I have found and I will admit, I am a

Unknown Speaker 39:39
as I’ve described it before, I’m a

Unknown Speaker 39:44

Unknown Speaker 39:45
shoot, aim. Kind of a guy.

Unknown Speaker 39:49
I had to think about that person. Ready, shoot, aim. Got it.

Unknown Speaker 39:55
Well, I’m there you know, one of the one of the things too, is You need to do your homework, you need to do your analysis. But sometimes people will get so in the weeds on analyzing that they then don’t take action. And so one of my statements that I have, which I’ve said in my interview with Larry, his magic and miracles happen when you have faith Believe in yourself, and you take action. That’s awesome because if you do not take action, nothing will happen. It’s just like, you know, I’m learning YouTube I learned something every single day. And so right now I’m taking the creating my my content stack through doing interviews like this. So there’s a video, which becomes podcast I’m out Bureau is now on 13 different apps, plus, I transcribe that into using AI into text well I could watch all the videos on how to optimize your YouTube channel, the YouTube channel, I could sit there and I could spend four hours a day watching you other YouTube videos on how to create an optimized YouTube videos, right? But if I don’t actually put it into practice and actually start doing it, nothing will happen. Right? And so, and I’m also being an entrepreneur right now of one being a company of one, self funded bootstrap and so forth. You know, I myself can get into oh my gosh, I have the LinkedIn group, I have the website, I’m trying to free content, I’m trying to do videos and so forth. But at the end of the day, every single day, I do something that moves out the road forward, something, whatever that is. And I think that’s a real lesson. It’s like if you do have your idea, you can be an idea guy. You can be an idea person, let’s say sorry, non gender binaries and females out there. You can you can be the idea person, and that’s fantastic. But unless you have unless you’re committed to that idea, and you begin researching the idea to your point to see is this viable is what problem does this solve? Why is this important to you? Why would this be important to someone else? Right? Because I could, I could have the the, I could have the next idea for a fantastic you know, coffee mug, but unless I unless I start putting it into practice unless I start actually working on it. All it is, is a bunch of ideas. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Like that, because they’re still paying their monthly fees, but but you know, so it talks about looking at your, your competitive space and really thinking about more than just your, your direct competitors, but your indirect competitors as well and even people who might think of you as a competitor, even though you don’t think of them and what that helps with all of that there’s also articles on creating a business plan.

Unknown Speaker 0:29
Looking at your marketing and so forth.

Unknown Speaker 0:33
And what I have found and I will admit, I am a

Unknown Speaker 0:39
as I’ve described before, I’m a

Unknown Speaker 0:44
ready shoot, aim. Kind of a guy. I had

Unknown Speaker 0:49
to think about that person. Ready, shoot,

Unknown Speaker 0:51
aim. Got it.

Unknown Speaker 0:55
Well, I’m there you know, one of the one of the things too, is You need to do your homework, you need to do your analysis. But sometimes people will get so in the weeds on analyzing that they then don’t take action. And so one of my statements that I have, which I’ve said in my interview with Larry, his magic and miracles happen when you have faith Believe in yourself, and you take action. That’s awesome because if you do not take action, nothing will happen. It’s just like, you know, I’m learning YouTube I learned something every single day. And so right now I’m taking the creating my my content stack through doing interviews like this. So there’s video, which becomes podcast I’m out Bureau is now on 13 different apps, plus, I transcribe that into using AI into text well could watch all the videos on how to optimize your YouTube channel, the YouTube channel, I could sit there and I could spend four hours a day watching you other YouTube videos on how to create an optimized YouTube videos, right? But if I don’t actually put it into practice and actually start doing it, nothing will happen. Right? And so and I’m also being an entrepreneur right now of one being a company of one, self funded bootstrap and so forth. Um, you know, I myself can get into, oh my gosh, I have the LinkedIn group, I have the website, I’m doing free content, I’m trying to do videos and so forth. But at the end of the day, every single day, I do something that moves out the road forward, something, whatever that is. And I think that’s a real lesson. It’s like if you do have your idea, you can be an idea guy. You can be an idea person, let’s say sorry, non gender binaries and females out there. You can you can be the idea person, and that’s fantastic. But unless you have unless you’re committed to that idea, and you begin researching the idea to your point to see is this viable is what problem does this solve? Why is this important to you? Why would this be important to someone else? Right? Because I could, I could have the the, I could have the next idea for a fantastic you know, coffee mug. But unless I unless I start putting it into practice unless I start actually working on it. All it is, is a bunch of ideas. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 3:46
And platforms like this, like what you’re working on, create opportunity for us to take action, right. So like you’re creating a path for us to take some action and get the word out there about products and services that we’re working on. So that’s why that’s the value that you’re putting into the marketplace, right? Which is wicked valuable. And also, I would just also say is that don’t underestimate the, the value of this asset or these assets that you’re accumulating and sharing with other people. Right? Think of it you know, I somehow I doubt this will ever be the number one video on YouTube that you know, that crushes the server. However, the long tail kind of effects of something like this, even if it helps like four people, right, it was worth the hour we spent together in my opinion, and that would do it 100 times over again.

Unknown Speaker 4:29
Absolutely. For me, it’s it’s valuable to have visibility of entrepreneurs, professionals and leaders who happen to be LGBTQ so that other LGBTQ persons out there can see and hear from them and know that they can do it to

Unknown Speaker 4:53

Unknown Speaker 4:54
and so on out bureau comm there is a group so if you create your profile file you can actually join groups similar to joining groups on Facebook or LinkedIn. There is an out startup group that’s ran by fantastic lesbian entrepreneur. Everyone is also able to create a group for themselves, their, their industry, their geographic focus and so forth. groups on out bureau can be public, meaning that they are open and searchable indexable by search engines, they can be private where you have to be a group member in order to see the content and they can also be secret so for example, you know if you if you want to work with your clients and communicate with your clients or create just a group, where you know, you and your people involved in your business and city screen would like to have a collaboration space but wanting to not use Other systems, that’s a that’s a capability, I would always like to also remind people that you are able to indicate whether you are open to being a mentor of other individuals on the site on your professional profile and indicate the idea of the areas in which you are open to being a mentor. And then you can also indicate whether you would like to be a mentee, you would like a mentor, and the areas and then using the search filters. Under the members search, you’re able to locate each other. But you’re also able to see when you’re searching for other people, whether that’s industry location, and so forth, you’re able to connect and friend each other just like similar to Facebook and LinkedIn. And once you do that you’re able to direct message. So it’s a platform in where you can create meaningful relationships. seek out opportunities and for example, you’ll be able to connect with Christopher on the site and learn More about the business and directly message him to find out how you might be able to use city screen solutions in your business. So so being an entrepreneur is also lots of work right? We spend lots of lots of hours during the day and sleepless nights. So what are some of the ways Christopher that that you kind of de stress, reconnect and so forth? What are perhaps maybe some of your hobbies or things that you like to do? I just I

Unknown Speaker 7:35
for the past year, I’ve been kind of by Coastal I’ve been bouncing back and forth between Los Angeles and my domiciled home based in South Florida and Broward County. But I’m in upstate New York right now in a farm kind of environment. I took a gardening this year Oh my God, I feel like so like as soon as I’m done work, which is never I’m like taking time out to go like water my plants and stuff like that. Dennis, I love it. I can’t tell you how much my partner is actually like like looking out in the eye. First of all, we’re not used to having this much space and this much green around us and my partner, you know, look out and be like, Oh my God, he’s out there watering the plants again, What’s his problem? I love it. So yeah, I think having hobbies and other things that kind of distract you, you know, as long as they’re controlled, right? And when you come back, you come back kind of refreshed with the open mind and able to you know, address the same problem from a different perspective. I think just honestly, my advice around this would be take such good care of yourself. No one else is going to do it for you. You know, the food you put in your body the rest you get. I know there’s all this talk about staying up all night, but that’s not me. I mean, I I am a seven hour sleep guy, and I get it. I get it. And if you have to wait for my deliverable, I’ll let you know responsibly but I get that sleep I get that exercise. I take really good care of my body. And especially you know, as I’m getting older,

Unknown Speaker 8:53
you know that that matters more and more.

Unknown Speaker 8:55
Yeah, absolutely. Well, definitely. So far, you know, the the outdoor garden is a big theme. So you know that it’s a connection of nature. It’s it’s something I can do. I enjoy it. I’ve always enjoyed it. You’re in my past. With my exes I would we have purchased homes. I always purposely purchased kind of the ugliest house in the best neighborhoods with the worst yards. And as my realtors would always be like, what you know, why are you doing this? It’s like, yeah, it’s because well, I probably won’t like if some if I bought a house with already the garden. The likelihood of me liking it all is slim. And so why, Yeah, why? Why would I be paying top dollar for something I don’t like or why would I be paying top dollar for a kitchen remodel? That isn’t my style, right? I’d rather buy a house. That, that practically just has good bones and needs everything done that so that’s one of my hobbies when I can when I’ve done it in the past, and I personally like to hike and walk a lot. So I average about three to four miles a day. Now that’s good stuff. Yeah, it’s great, great to connect. And you know, I can’t stress for folks, how, how often I actually solve problems while I’m on my Xbox. So sometimes I listen to meditative music. Sometimes I’m listening to you know, my beats my dance music, my EDM. Sometimes I’m listening to podcasts, about entrepreneurial ism, and so forth. And, but even if I’m listening to music, I’m often still thinking about my problem is I, as I have had to tell people, it might look like I’m not doing anything but I’m out. Working. Even if I’m just sitting in the city, I’ve had to tell, you know, neighbors, do you see me just sitting in the backyard, you can say hello. But unless I initiate a conversation, I’m probably working, even though it might not look like it.

Unknown Speaker 11:19
I can relate to that. I think that that whole, you know, work to your knuckles bleed Silicon Valley startups, I think it’s gonna die hard death over time and people are going to realize that you are, you know, your your can be a very well optimized machine yourself as a human right. If you treat the machine properly and maintain it, treat it properly, exercise it, give it rest and let it reboot. I think we’re going to find that that’s a lot more tied to success and going at burning the candle from both ends for decades.

Unknown Speaker 11:52
Absolutely. What I like to do in as folks will see in the writings that I do, as I define it, I say success as you define it because so often people get hung up in in you know the the trying to catch up with the Joneses trying to have is you know thinking that success is having the you know $4 million house that you see on the canal with the big million dollar boat behind it and so forth. But you know yeah and so it’s a you know, whatever, whatever your happiness is, and you know, you have to find that for yourself. So, so one plug on being on being healthy. If you have not seen the episode or heard the episode we unfortunately didn’t do the video at the time. There is the the episode four. Oh geez. My name My brain is blinking. The holistic eating health coach, Episode Three. Name is escaping me. I’m so sorry. But it’s Jason anywho go out do a link on it.

Unknown Speaker 13:15
Dr. Jason is I watched that. Yeah, I watched that. That was excellent.

Unknown Speaker 13:20
Oh, geez, I’m gonna have to Okay. Now I need to go back so that I have this here. I will do a link on the site. That is no Timothy Timothy sugar. Okay. So he’s a, a holistic health coach for eating healthy. So I’m going to be having additional books here as well as focusing on your life. But do take a listen to that as well. You have the opportunity. So Christopher, thank you so much for giving us a little bit of insight into yourself. Your journey everyone has a very, interesting journey, I think because it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s a thing of taking the choices and the opportunities presented to you and what you do with it. So, in some of your insights on the entrepreneurism journey, it’s so much to talk about there, that’s going to be the mainstay of our conversations moving forward. So, I would love to at any point, when you are ready, if you would love to come back and give us some examples, and maybe a demo of Sydney screen TV in action would love to see that maybe with some case studies of how some potential customers or how potential organizations could use that product as it is evolving. We would love to have you there perhaps we’ll be able to connect you up with some folks who are in the group. So Thank you so much for your time your days. Absolutely. Christopher Thank you so much. And again for everyone viewing and watching this is Dennis Falco without bureau comm that is If you would like to see past and future video interviews, please subscribe on YouTube, as well as check out out euro comm podcast page where you’re able to see all of the current 13 and awaiting more places where you are able to listen to this episodes on the go. Perhaps you’re at the gym, in the car, or so forth. Thank you so much for tuning in and we look forward to seeing you in the future. Join us now on out where you belong and your voice matters. Bye-bye

OutBuro Voices Interview Larry Jacobson LGBT Entrepreneur Professional Adventurer Business Life Retirement Coach Out Gay Fisrt to Sail Around the World

Larry Jacobson – Adventurer, Author, Speaker, and Coach

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During his six years circumnavigating the globe after departing corporate shores, Larry accumulated priceless and hard-won souvenirs — new insights on how to master your fears and limitations, persevere through the inevitable storms on the way to success, and live out your childhood dreams against all odds. Larry has the distinction of being the first out LGBT person to sail around the world flying a rainbow flag the entire way.

Larry’s dynamic recounting of his incredible experiences and the lessons he’s drawn from them shine a navigational beacon of inspiration for anyone who’s ever aspired to achieve great things in business or in life.

Larry on OutBüro >>

“Larry’s satisfaction comes from inspiring you to achieve your goals and make your grandest dreams and visions come true. Through his coaching, speaking, workshops, publications, and video programs, Larry has motivated people worldwide.

The Boy Behind the Gate:

How His Dream of Sailing Around the World Became a Six-Year Odyssey of Adventure, Fear, Discovery, and Love

Boy-Behind-the-Gate-Cover Larry Jacobson First Out LGBT professional sailor to sail around the world lgbtq entrepreneur life retirement business coach outburo

With his first mate and crew, amateur sailor Larry Jacobson embarked on a lifelong goal to circumnavigate the globe. The namesake boy behind the gate is a passionate romantic who, since childhood, yearned to discover what’s out there….

How do some people overcome fears and insecurities to manifest their dreams? What are the characteristics that allow them to completely transform their lives from one of stability to one of uncertainty and adventure? Don’t we all entertain ideas of reinventing ourselves, of having a chance to do it differently and by our own rules?

Willing to risk all, Jacobson spent six years sailing into the unknown where the unrelenting oceans served as a teacher of seamanship, personal strength, and perseverance.

In The Boy Behind the Gate, the author reveals those crucial steps that will motivate you to make your dreams come true. We are each given one great opportunity at life. What are you going to do with yours?

Sail into Retirement (or your passion at any point)

Not quite ready for personalized one-on-one coaching but want to still gain great advice with actionable exercises to create your plan? Sail into Retirement is then for you. The nine Course Modules contain 18 Interactive Videos, 21 Lessons, and Guided Coaching Worksheets in each lesson, that allow you to create your life-style plan on your own, at your own pace. The course is very affordable and provides so much to help you be ready for your next adventure in life.

The value of Sail Into Retirement is not only the information, but also the system Jacobson uses in the online and personal coaching sessions. The lessons build on one another, in a logical order, which ensures you to get the best results.  

From his graduate work in education at the University of California Berkeley, Jacobson understands sequencing of learning, and building a platform of knowledge step by step. He has developed Sail Into Retirement with your success in mind. You will end the course with a plan in hand.

Navigating Entrepreneurship

Online Course

How do you learn to be an entrepreneur?


You can either learn it the hard way — the school of hard knocks — or you can learn it from someone who’s already been there. What’s your time worth? Why not leverage your time by using Larry Jacobson’s 20 years of experience?

Are you prepared to deal with the fears, risks, decision-making, changes, and loneliness of being an entrepreneur? Many of today’s classes, books, and audio programs fail to address these very real challenges.

This powerful course will help you thrive as an entrepreneur as the no nonsense instruction comes from 20 years of real world experience.

You’ll learn how to deal with the entrepreneurial roller coaster ride that can be tough and lonely at times. Larry Jacobson knows what you’re going through.

  • Do you consider yourself an entrepreneur?
  • Are you managing a one-person venture from home?
  • Are you new to a leadership position?
  • Do you have an online retail, coaching, or other service business? Or perhaps you own a brick and mortar store with employees?
  • Are you losing sleep because of your business life?
  • Do you worry about your business so much that it’s not as fun as you imagined?
  • Do you struggle with pending decisions?
  • Are you an employee working for someone else and want to move up the ladder?
  • Do you feel alone in your pursuit, wishing you had an advisor who understands the challenges you’re facing?

If you answered YES to any of these questions, read on….

After taking this course, you will:

• Increase your self-confidence as a leader of yourself and others.

• Turn your dreams into achievable, measurable goals.

• Reduce your stress level.

• Make your time more effective.

• Make decisions faster and easier.

• Never fear your fears again.

• Truly ENJOY being an entrepreneur!Who this course is for:

  • Most helpful for entrepreneurs and solopreneurs who wear many hats in their day to day work life.

What you’ll learn – Navigate the entrepreneurial roller coaster. Students will learn how to turn dreams into goals, how to analyze risks, how to make big decisions on their own, how to deal with change, how to use fear to their advantage, how to persevere, live with passion, lead others, and commit to success. Students will learn proven strategies for goal attainment in any business role.


  • No pre-requisities required. Just a desire to succeed in your business and learn from someone who has succeeded as an entrepreneur.

Buoy Coaching

Buoy Coaching Larry Jacobson Retirement Planning Adventurer Life Coach LGBT Entrepreneur Guiding High Achievement Professional in their next life chapter OutBuro

Author and creator of the cutting edge award-winning program, SAIL INTO RETIREMENT. Through an online interactive video classroom or VIP Private Retirement Coaching, Larry helps those at the top of their game ease out of their business and professional career to find their passion, combine it with their skills, expertise, and experience to create their next big step in life.

What are you going to do with your time in retirement? As a businessperson who has been going fast your whole life, we’ll make sure you don’t slam on the brakes and have nothing to do. After nine weeks of online classes or private coaching, you’ll have your Plan of Action for your next big step as you SAIL INTO RETIREMENT.

You’re used to doing what you do—whether it’s being a CEO, General in the army, nurse, or salesperson. Because you’ve done it for so long, and are good at what you do, it’s hard to imagine doing anything else, so you keep on doing the same thing. You say you love your work, but at this point in your life, you don’t know what else you could love doing after work ends. Are you concerned that a life of meaning might slip by? Is a life of true satisfaction slipping through your fingers right now? When will you bear the fruits of all of your hard work? Every day at work, you felt valued, needed, respected, and you contributed your knowledge. When that steady flow of interaction upon which you thrive dries up, how do you expect to transition to tending your roses without difficulty? Most people have difficulty with the transition and many fall into depression. It doesn’t have to be that way. Retirement doesn’t have to mean the end, but rather the beginning of renewal. Will you retire or renew? Financial vs. Non-Financial: Most people have a financial plan for retirement. Most do not have a non-financial plan. Maybe you have enough money to retire or perhaps you still need additional income. Either way, you’re still faced with the question of: How will you spend your days? Without a course to follow, it’s easy to drift aimlessly. Do you have a plan?

Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hi there, I’m Dennis Velco. With OutBüro voices that is We are very happy today to have someone that I have had several conversations and have had the pleasure of meeting in person. Larry Jacobson. Welcome, Larry to the show.

Unknown Speaker 0:22
Great to be here. Thank you, Dennis.

Unknown Speaker 0:24
Awesome, so much. Why so much appreciate you taking the time out of your weekend, especially to chat with us today. For those of you who don’t know, and I’ll be sure to of course, let Larry tell his story. But Larry’s a very interesting guy. He is the first out gay person, LGBT person to sail around the entire world. Wow, that is going to be an interesting story. But more not not only was that an accomplishment, but the the the lessons Learn the life lessons that he had taken away from that, you know, it’s one thing to accomplish a large task, but then it’s another than to take that task, and then transform it into even more for yourself and more for other people. So we’re going to get into how Larry has not only sailed around the world, but now how he is helping people achieve their dreams, both in business and in retirement. So Larry, thank you so much, again, for joining us today, if you could again, but, you know, for especially those folks who maybe have not heard of you before. Could you give us a little bit of background and context?

Unknown Speaker 1:41
Sure. Well, your introduction was perfect. I should just quit right now. Actually,

Unknown Speaker 1:47
that was really brief. You’ve got a very deep and interesting story.

Unknown Speaker 1:51
Yeah, well, I don’t I don’t think we want to go back as far as we really want to is which is age 13. Except for one element, and that is when I was 13 years old, I taught myself to sail. And three years later, I decided that I was going to sail around the world. I was 16 years old. Wow. Yeah. So I had I kept that dream alive for 3033 30 years. And when I was 46, is when I finally sailed out the Golden Gate headed around the world.

Unknown Speaker 2:24

Unknown Speaker 2:25
yeah. So I have spent 20 years in the corporate world in the events planning business. The travel incentive business and taking boobs for mostly high tech companies all around the world on different exciting travel programs. And always in the back of my mind was, you know, what are you doing towards your goal of sailing around the world because that was just my dream. That was my major focus was to do that. So for 20 years I worked and finally I was able to sell the company. And get just enough money to cheese me into thinking that I could sail around the world. I mean, I could buy a boat and leave. And when I say that it means while I still had to borrow the money to buy a boat, and then halfway through the trip, I had to sell my half of the house that I owned with my partner. And so it was just a tease. But that’s because when we left, I thought we were going for maybe one or two years, I really didn’t think about how long it takes to sail around the world. Because I really didn’t have all that knowledge. So I just went,

Unknown Speaker 3:39
Wow. Yeah, very adventure and adventurous without quite, you know, the full full planning. So, so interesting. So it did. So, so it took you if I’m not mistaken, six years total,

Unknown Speaker 3:56
correct. Six years. Just sail all the way around the world. That was four 30,400 nautical miles. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 4:04
And now, it doesn’t seem like it would take that long was it that you stopped in a lot of ports and you know, hung out for

Unknown Speaker 4:12
a while, right? The idea was not to like race around the world quickly, but to see the world and live in different places. And so as we we sell sell from San Francisco to Mexico, and then we took about six months to cross the Pacific, and ended up in New Zealand. And you stayed in New Zealand for about eight months, waiting out the hurricane season, then went back up into the Pacific for another six months, and then back down to Australia, and we stayed in Australia for another eight months. So yeah, so you’re basically following the weather as you go around the world and avoiding the hurricane seasons. And then we lived in other places that we live in Long time we’re in Phuket, Thailand for about two to three months, I think. And in Tel Aviv, Israel for about three months, and then in Turkey for almost a year and Barcelona for a month. And those are the major places that we spent a long time. It was really great to get to not be a tourist but to be part of the community.

Unknown Speaker 5:27
Gotcha. Wow, amazing, an amazing way to see the see the world.

Unknown Speaker 5:32
And we did fly the rainbow flag all the way around the world. We did take it down when we entered pirate alley, which is the Gulf of Aden, just before and going up the Red Sea. And we held he had it down for those for that period. And once we got through the Suez Canal, it’s just overnight sail to Israel. And on our approach to Israel, we put the rainbow flag back up pulled into the Marina. And within about 20 minutes this woman comes by, and she sees a rainbow flag and she points up to it. And she says, Me too. Me too. And he was. And so, Ireson was our first our first gay friend that we found that in Israel, and many more awesome. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 6:23

Unknown Speaker 6:26
it’s in your, your, your your real I guess goal of this was just to to see the world as you said it wasn’t like you were trying to you know beat some time record or something like that in Russian was just your your your way of seeing the world?

Unknown Speaker 6:43
Yes, it’s it certainly. I mean it could have I could have done it a lot cheaper by flying first class all the way around the world. Probably staying in Ritz Carlton’s, but this was what what I had always wanted to do and having Been a sailor my whole life and this is, you know, this is the Everest for a sailor This is the ultimate. And it doesn’t matter that if whether you’re trying to race around the world or go slowly, they say about on an average year 60 people are so completely circumnavigation. Really compared to the hundreds who climbed Mount Everest. Yeah, it’s just because it’s that difficult to get a boat around the world because of the weather challenges, breakdowns. And when you’re out for six years, everything breaks. You have salt, water and sun it corrodes everything and so you have a lot of breakdowns and just the not only breakdowns of the equipment but there are some emotional times as well when it it becomes so difficult of a challenge doing what we’re doing that you just want to break down and cry and just say oh my god, forget it. Yeah, oh here and go home. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 8:00
Yes, I could, I could definitely imagine that because you’re on a small vessel relatively small in comparison to living in a house much smaller. Yeah. And you’re with the same people are saying very small group of people or in a very extended amount of time.

Unknown Speaker 8:17

Unknown Speaker 8:18
And that alone as we have found, you know, through this COVID situation that we’re now living with, you know, most people are used to going to their, you know, work every day and coming home and being even just being trapped in that, you know, in and around your home in the house with the same people in your family. Yeah, you can go a little bit stir crazy.

Unknown Speaker 8:40
Yeah. Oh, well, we say that a one year on board a boat together is like a dog year. Okay, so if so, it’s seven, so six years. I was with my partner at the time, Ken for for most of the trip. That was six years. So times. You know Seven is 42 years and then at the the gay gay years on top of that very is

Unknown Speaker 9:10
right What is it? I’ve heard different numbers like one gay relationship year is like three or four and the heterosexual world. So add, add that then multiply or multiply that then multiply you’re on the boat thing. So that’s like oh my gosh, over 100 years, like being together. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:34
Most of the people that we met who were who were doing what we were doing ended up divorced at the end of their trip. I think I think us and two other couples that I know stayed together. And then we were together for Ken and I were together for five years more after the trip. And then then we finally call it quits. Okay, no, still

Unknown Speaker 10:00
So what are so let’s kind of, you know, your now or you have been kind of taken that and you you wrote a book about your experiences. And I would recall that when we were had the opportunity when you were visiting Fort Lauderdale last year to finally meet in person after having had several phone conversations together. And you talked about how, during the course of your your journey, you you, it finally struck you to begin journaling. Yes. Yeah. And so talk about that a little bit and maybe talk about, you know, some of the significant or key points that made you realize that, you know, there’s a book here about leadership because that’s ultimately it from what I have gathered what your book is really about.

Unknown Speaker 10:58
It is it’s an The book is called the boy behind the gate. And it’s called, it’s, well, I still get emails from people. I’ve almost every week from a new reader saying, because of your book, thank you, I It’s very motivating, in empowering people that will I did this and I was just a regular guy. So what what is it that you want to do? And why can’t you do that? And so it puts a lot. I think it’s very empowering in that sense. And the other thing is that it is about leadership in the sense that when I left a sail out underneath the Golden Gate, there were four other people on board. And I can remember there’s a little snippet in the book about this sailing under the gate. And just looking around and seeing these other four people and realizing holy crap. I’m the captain here. And I told I remember telling myself two things. One, I really have to pee. And the second one was, well, if you’re going to be captain, you better start acting like one. And, yeah, and that happens like on day one. And, you know, there’s just it became the number the my a priority to get the boat around the world and everything that I could think of and everything that I could see and do and touch on any daily basis had to be toward that goal, whether that could mean solving a crew problem. I remember that when the crossing specifically had an issue between two crew members. I’m wondering who they are. And I put them into my cabin, my locked cabin in the back of the boat and I say don’t come out and tell your friends again. And, and it worked. Yeah, it worked. And you know the other thing about leadership on board of voters and empowering others. Even though there’s only one captain, you learn that captaining is not telling people what to do, but empowering them to do the right thing. Very good. Absolutely. And, yeah, so for the most part, you know, I left things not really sure who I would be continuing the trip with. But Ken, at the time, was a good friend and sailing buddy. And he came along, and we ended up spending the next six years together, a spark from a time when he left and came back, but that’s all in the book. That’s the juicy stuff, by the way for the listeners. Not that. Yeah, when he left when he came back and all the romance that follows and everything. But Ken and I became a pretty well oiled machine and we could sail this boat, just the two of us did was a 50 foot boat, 25 tons, a big boat, and just the two of us, just the Without without shouting without yelling at each other a lot by hand signals when when we would come into an anchorage we never yell like, like we saw all other couples going back up no do this not do that everything that we did was hand signals. I was at the wheel, he was on the bow. And between our hand signals, we got the whole thing done without saying a word people were just amazed.

Unknown Speaker 14:28
Oh, very, very, very interesting. Learning to adapt your communication while still getting the job done.

Unknown Speaker 14:37
Yes, exactly. I mean, there’s we’re also scuba divers. And so you’ve learned to communicate underwater with hand signals. And so yeah, it was, you know, as a leader, I tried to make it a good place to be on board the boat, for whether it was for myself for Canada and for our guests. When we cross it Three oceans, the Pacific, Atlantic, Indian and Atlantic. We had two other crew members with us. Just for the sleep factor, though we can actually get some real sleep. But the hardest passages, I’m just trying to answering, in my mind the questions that people want to know. But the hardest passages we’re not crossing the oceans a lot when we cross the Pacific Ocean. It took us 21 days. And that was one of my favorite days. Wow, the difficult passages were three, four or five days when they were just Ken and I, and we were in and out of islands and reefs and areas like down in Southeast Asia, Fiji and places like that. That was a really difficult exhausting sailing. And we we had a system where it was just the two of us. We were three hours on three off, three on three off, three on three off, and that just goes 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Wow. You

Unknown Speaker 16:00
Yeah. Does that mean if it were just the two of you that it was one was on for three, while the other was sleeping for three to essentially? One person manning the boat?

Unknown Speaker 16:10
Exactly. Wow. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker 16:14
And so was the difficult portion down in those in the Pacific area and the Pacific Island area that you’ve mentioned was that because of the reefs and the dangers of it, versus being in the open water?

Unknown Speaker 16:27
Correct, right. And the saying goes, it’s, it’s not the ocean that gets you it’s the hard bits around the edges. So it’s land that is a problem for a boat. And so we know you’re very close proximity, like sailing up inside the Great Barrier Reef in Australia, two days after day after day, too many reefs to be as to sail at night. Some of them are Uncharted, and so you’re having to read the water and find a new Anchorage. Every night and yeah, so it was was challenging. Wow. But great fun.

Unknown Speaker 17:07
Yeah, uh wow it I mean, what an incredible experience, you know that that’s been, you know not many people as you’ve also recovered about not many people take on those kind of life experience big moment challenges in their life and, you know, that seems to be a lot what you are have transitioned into and, and helping be a life coach, business coach and retirement coach and saying to you know, people who have worked their life and whatever careers you know, even folks of high accomplishment doctors, attorneys, executives and so forth and they’re looking at retirement, and, you know, that could Be quite challenging because it’s like, what the world am I going to do with the rest of your life when you could have quite a long life to live depending on when you retire?

Unknown Speaker 18:10
Absolutely. And you know what happened to the way I got into coaching and coaching people who are retiring, or at least in transition to their next big thing in life is when I came back, and I spent three years writing the book, and book was published in a one six literary awards within the first year. And yeah, and so that made my mother very happy. So that was a good thing. Yeah. And so then I got a call from a friend of mine, who is a CEO. And he said, Hey, Larry, I’ve got a question for you. And he wanted to ask me some questions about this business. So I went in and saw him and he’s and as with most business, executive coaching, the person doesn’t really want to ask you Hey, how do I run my business? So can you help me with this balance sheet or something like that? No, what they’re asking you about is more people issues. How do I deal with john, what should I do about this particular moral dilemma I’m in. But this person said, Hey, Larry, I wanna I want to ask you is, what am I going to do when I retire? And how did you do it? How did you let go of everything, including your identity of who you were as an executive, to change and to go sailing? And is there a process for that? And I said, well, gee, not that I know of, but I’ll think about it. Then I got a call from another friend who is the CEO. And the same thing happened. He asked me the same questions. And I thought, okay, I’m onto something here. And so I said, I took the next year and I reverse engineered all the steps that I went through to retire to be able to leave my career. My income, my security, my home my identity of who I was. And I documented these steps. And then I created the video program. sailings retirement, which is an online interactive video programs, the first one, and it takes you from see what am I gonna do with the rest of my life, all the way through to I have a plan and take walks you through all the steps. And it’s not the physical steps like save X amount of dollars. It’s a non financial, I don’t talk about money at all. But it’s it’s steps of, for example, what’s your vision and teaching people how to how to dream and how to vision and what they can imagine for themselves. And then turning that into those visions and goals. And then figuring out what you’re good at what you’re not good at. and then and then managing your fears, because fears, you know, fear stops so many people from so many things.

Unknown Speaker 20:57

Unknown Speaker 20:58
Yeah. So this Uh, you know, those are the kinds of steps that it takes you through. And I’m just very proud of that program. I love it. So,

Unknown Speaker 21:09
yeah, and I love that you don’t focus necessarily on the money there. I mean, certainly having the finances to accomplish you know what you want. Important. But then there’s also other people who help you do that if you need help to do it, under understanding your why understanding the What drives you, what are you interested in? What is really going to make you happy? Yes. You know, so many people go through their life working in a career, that they’re really not that passionate about. Right, that they may not have even they may have stumbled into the career or let’s say they’re even a you know, successful doctor or attorney or something they might have gotten into that career because that’s what their family expected.

Unknown Speaker 21:59
Right? And

Unknown Speaker 22:00
You know, it wasn’t necessarily their passion. And although many are not, you know, let’s, you know, be clear about that. But, you know, being able to take that time where, unlike you not even waiting till you’re, you know, in what you would call your typical retirement years, right? You took that opportunity to say, Look, I’ve had this this passion, this dream, and what do I need to do to accomplish this while I still have the opportunity and the strength and stamina to actually do it, and enjoy it? Yeah, come out on the other side.

Unknown Speaker 22:42
Exactly. And it and deciding what am I willing to give up for that dream? Right, in my case, it was pretty much all pretty much everything you know, I mean, I it was career suicide, of course. And You know, it was deciding that the life is not, you know, it’s enough, as we all know, it’s not getting any longer. You never know what’s going to happen. And if you have the opportunity to make your dream come true, take it. If you don’t know what your dream is, you don’t know what your passion is. And that is something for a lot of people, they don’t know what they want to do. You know, you know, always everyday that you are trying to help people to, you know, help people in our community. And I’m now trying to, to help people realize their own dreams and make their dreams come true. And I help people to do that. And that’s where I get my satisfaction from now. But some people don’t know what they want to do. And so I run them through what’s called my passion quiz. And it has all these questions about, you know, digs deep into finding out what it is someone really wants to do, by the way, that’s free on my website. If people want

Unknown Speaker 24:01
to awesome, and you know, and because I spent most day kind of catching up, because it has been a while, almost a year since you and I had last time together, and I saw that program, and one it’s very affordable.

Unknown Speaker 24:19
Hello, Sandra $100 or so? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 24:22
Yeah, so very affordable for people and I almost, you know, in doing that and hearing you talk now, you know, sell into your retirement, it’s I’m kind of getting the sense that it’s, it’s doesn’t have to be necessarily about retirement, it’s more sell into your dream. You’re selling to your passion.

Unknown Speaker 24:44
So it’s great. And recognizing that that that is valid. That is it’s just as valid to pursue your passion as it is to pursue going, you know, to a job that you don’t like every day, and you should be pursuing it because you don’t know what’s going to happen.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
Absolutely, I think it’s more valid actually. And you know, especially, you know, in entrepreneurial ism, or you know, even if you are going if you’re working, you know, in a, you know, regular job, you know, if you really love for example, helping people and you have had personal family crisis with cancer and you can’t be the oncologist but you go to become a, you know, radiation technician or something or even homeopathic person, and you then work with people who have that that’s very rewarding, and it’s been focused in and around your passion of helping people with cancer, if that’s, you know, what it is, you know, everyone has their different things. And it’s so sad that the vast majority of people and I can say this without even citing statistics or anything It’s just, I know this to be true. And I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this. But the vast majority of people are not working or living and doing what they’re passionate about.

Unknown Speaker 26:15
Totally agree.

Unknown Speaker 26:16
And so so this is an opportunity for all of our listeners to regardless again, don’t get hung up on the naming of sale into your retirement, just think of it as sale into your passion. From the show notes, it’s already listed there on the page. So if if you are no matter what level you are, you could even be 18 years old and looking at what you should be doing in your in your future career. You could be 30 years old and having your first mini midlife crisis and wondering

Unknown Speaker 26:53
right What the

Unknown Speaker 26:54
fuck am I gonna do the rest of my life. Trust me, it’s not the price, not the last time that’s going to

Unknown Speaker 27:01
And you’re talking with someone who have reinvented himself several times. And you

Unknown Speaker 27:06
have and successfully and you recognize that his life is not static, and you don’t have to do the same thing all the time. And, and and go do that. Yeah, part of it is the decision making process is that, you know, I will say that making no decision is a decision. It is. And a lot of people just don’t make the decision when they don’t realize that they are, in fact, making a decision. And I think that gets

Unknown Speaker 27:33
back to your point of fear. You know, people have a very rooted, deep rooted, fear of change and fear of the unknown. Yes. And so, utilizing your your very affordable coursework online, could help them identify that their passion help them identify those fears have you mentioned and create a plan for reaching for it?

Unknown Speaker 28:07
Yes, exactly. And it’s good that you mentioned that fear, you know, that was a subject of my first TED talk was about fear. And it’s titled passion Trumps fear. Okay, well, I wish I hadn’t quite used that exact wording now.

Unknown Speaker 28:29

Unknown Speaker 28:32
Yeah. And, and I was talking about how, I mean, I was pretty much afraid for six years, on a daily basis. I mean, there was always something that that to be afraid of. And what I learned was that fear is just is to be accepted and embraced. It’s nature’s way of making us focus on the task at hand. And you don’t plow through your fears. You don’t conquer your fears, you know, knocked down the wall of fear. You know, this is what other philosophers have to say. It’s not what I believe. I believe that they’re that when you’re standing at the wheel in front of a 30 foot wave, I mean, 30 foot seas. You can’t say it, you know, well, I’m not afraid. Because it’s bullshit you are. everybody’s afraid of that situation. You have to be crazy not to be afraid. But you learn to use the tools that fear is giving you to maximize your situation. So it’s making you sharp, it’s making you attend attentive. It’s making you really focused on the situation. And it’s, it’s a it’s a method of dealing with fear that I believe is the right one.

Unknown Speaker 29:46
Okay, I unders I definitely understand you. And

Unknown Speaker 29:52
I think it’s also too a matter of recognizing, recognizing that fear and acknowledging that that’s what it is. And

Unknown Speaker 30:02
that’s the first step is to recognize the fear. And the second step is to accept it.

Unknown Speaker 30:07
Understand, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:10
And you know, like so many people too they they they live in a cortisone heightened constant state of stress. And part of that is is fear based, you know, fear of their, their job, fear, fear and anxiety in relationships. And, you know, when, when you take the boldness, and, you know, like even, you know, in, in our own kind of tying it to the LGBT, you know, lives. You know, sometimes we have relationships, whether that’s direct family members or other people in our lives, that create this this sense of social conditioning that make you almost live in fear or two live in a state of not being your full, true, authentic self. And that is a fear based response. You’re not living your fullest and who you are. And the majority of that is fear based your, your you’re afraid of losing your job. You’re you’re afraid of what your evangelical right wing parent is going to say. Right? You know, and everyone is on their own journey. But at some point you have to say, you know, no, I’m worth it. I’m worth being myself, and I’m worth going after my dreams.

Unknown Speaker 31:41

Unknown Speaker 31:43
Putting those kinds of things in their place, so that that fear does not control you any longer. You are now the captain of your own ship.

Unknown Speaker 31:55
Yes, you are. You’re the master of your fate, the captain of your soul.

Unknown Speaker 31:59
Absolutely. Little lay Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 32:01
And it’s, uh, you know, going, we left right after 911 happened. Okay. And so that was not really a great time to leave. And I remember one of my brothers saying, well, you’re not actually going to go now, are you? I mean, it’s not exactly the best time to be an American sailing around the world. And he goes, are you going to fly the American flag? And I said, well, we’re going to fly the American flag, and we’re going to fly the rainbow flag. And he just kind of slaps his forehead. He goes, Oh my God, why don’t you just put a target on your sail?

Unknown Speaker 32:37
And I said, Well, that’s just the way it is, you know, and it’s funny, um,

Unknown Speaker 32:43
our experiences, you know, for being openly gay as we went around the world. Were really, for the most part, excellent. I mean, nobody really cared. And we found that being gay and the rest of the world was was just fine. Because you know what?

Unknown Speaker 33:02
I think you have your phone on your desk buzzy in

Unknown Speaker 33:10
the garbage, no worries that was just vibrating. And I think your your mic is right there. So we were hearing during that buzz. So say yes. So you know it how to say it is the Was it the best time to do it? Maybe not, but maybe, you know, it’s it’s standing up standing up and out for who you are. Yeah. And, you know, in everything in life, there’s risks, right? Yes, it is. There’s there’s risk

Unknown Speaker 33:47

Unknown Speaker 33:48
Yeah, I mean, come on. There’s there’s risk getting in your car driving three miles to the grocery store and back.

Unknown Speaker 33:55
That’s right.

Unknown Speaker 33:56
Exactly. Yeah. And that’s just the car in today’s world. COVID there’s risk, you know, apparently getting within six feet and breathing the same air of someone, there’s risk and everything. And it’s a matter of are you going to let those risks create the fear that keeps you from achieving what you want to achieve?

Unknown Speaker 34:20
Exactly, exactly. And and we all know that risk. Risk means often means sacrifice. So are you are you going to risk something for somebody else that you want, like becoming a great violinist means you have to risk the fact that you’re not going to be going out with your friends on Fridays and Saturdays. And instead you’re going to be practicing, you know, that kind of thing. So there’s always risk associated with any achievement, whether it be small or large. And I just try to encourage people to realize that your achievement, you know, this big achievement

Like sailing around the world, sometimes is hard for people to relate to, because it was such a big thing. But I try to, you know, want people to know that it you know, you don’t have to sail all the way around the world to have an adventure, you know, and to fulfill your dreams and pursue your passions. You might want to open up a little coffee shop in the store on the corner and that was your dream. You might want to help your, you know, your nephews soccer team or something like that. I mean, there’s all kinds of ways to to get fulfillment and passion. The one caution that I always like to have is that Be careful not to mistake multiple pleasures for purpose and fulfillment. So when so some when someone, let’s take someone who’s retiring and they go in and I said, What are you going to do when you retire? Well, I’m going to, I’m going to sleep late travel and play golf. Okay, or play whatever, you know, that’s a pretty typical answer. And then my question is Of course, well then what are you gonna do after that? Where’s your fulfillment and your purpose credit come from? and usually it takes someone about six months to a year into retirement to realize that they are missing purpose and fulfillment. And then that often comes the quickest fix for that is to help others.

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
Whether you give back teaching or volunteer or how or or right your experiences or something, but feel like you’re, we’re feel like you’re part of something larger than yourself. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker
right. Every everyone does typically need to feel that sense of purpose. And, of course, there are organizations out there such as score, where folks who have retired and volunteer and work with young entrepreneurs. Yeah, I would also like to know Make sure that everyone here is aware and or remind you that on your professional profile on out bureau o UT bu r o calm, you are actually able to indicate whether you would like to be a mentor. And then a brief description about the areas that are you that you are open to being a mentor on, of course, including the rest of your profile. You’re also then able to indicate whether you would like to be a mentee whether you know you’re open to having a mini tour, and the specific areas that you are looking for to help in whatever those are. And via the member search, you are able to find each other justic Thank you.

Unknown Speaker
I mean that is this that’s that gives people the opportunity to to Yeah, to mentor to help. You just want to, you know, you have all this wisdom that we’ve earned in our lives. Do we have knowledge? That’s one thing, but as all, you know, as an older person, okay, I’m not that old for the radio, listening. Um, but in addition to knowledge, you have wisdom. And if I might, if I might explain the difference.

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
That’s, that’s funny.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I would, I would kind of elaborate on that is that and maybe this came from experience. Knowledge is is, for example, reading a book on search engine optimization. You can Read a book. You can read a book about anything and you could gain knowledge. Right? But the wisdom comes from experience.

Unknown Speaker
Exactly. And often that experience has been laden with mistakes along the way. Oh yes.

Unknown Speaker
Like putting tomato in a salad. And so when you are open to learning from others, and being open to being a mentee and having someone guide you and coach you, on areas that you know, aren’t your strengths and where you are trying to improve upon, it’s taking it’s leveraging their wisdom, because of the lessons learned and hard knocks that they have achieved and hopefully You then don’t have to make those same mistakes.

Unknown Speaker
Exactly. And, you know, when I wrote

Unknown Speaker
my I wrote another book,

Unknown Speaker
navigating entrepreneurship. I don’t know if you can see that. There it is. We’ll have it on the

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
And the reason I wrote that one was because I was getting a lot of questions from people about who are doing startups and starting up their small business, and they think we’re hitting them. You know, being an entrepreneur, as you know, is quite a roller coaster ride. And so in that book, navigating entrepreneurship, I address the roller coaster and walk people through the different aspects that they’re going to be experiencing during when they’re starting up their business. And change is one of them and being proactive versus reactive and no just tips on that because I wanted my wisdom to be out there.

Unknown Speaker
Awesome, yes, we will definitely have a link to that. And of course links to your websites where then that will also be on there. You know, and I’d like to add, you know, being an entrepreneur, especially, you know, especially a bootstrap, you know, solo entrepreneur, you know, it’s a tough life. It’s a, you know, like right now out Bureau is, is, it’s still just me at this point. And, you know, having had and I do everything so from the technical website stuff to the content creation to the search engine optimization that needs to be done so people find it to these interviews, yes, and, and, and editing and everything else in between and, and that can become a little over overwhelming and it’s, you know, it’s like to your point earlier where you had to set a daily A task of saying, What am I going to do today? That drives me to my goal? Right? And as an entrepreneur and a startup entrepreneur, I think that’s a very important lesson, Larry, is because there are so many things, you know, there’s the, your technical, there’s the the the practical, the practical things of things to do. There’s the marketing, there’s the accounting, hopefully. Hopefully soon, yeah, hopefully soon. There, there there’s legal You know, there’s so many things you have to wear so many hats and or be able to afford to hire people to do those things and it becomes very overwhelming. And so, a good lesson for all entrepreneurs and budding entrepreneurs out there and those wanting to follow your dream is like, you know, Some days I get overwhelmed. Yes. And and what I do though is is similar to you is, I have a I have a set thing that I look at every day and I said, What am I going to achieve today? or What am I going to achieve tomorrow, that builds upon what I have been doing, and continues to drive out the arrow in the direction that I am wanting to go. Now I’ll be honest, I never achieve everything that I plan to watch. I’ve always have put more on my plate than is humanly possible. But I always achieved something literally every single day. Right? That’s right. cluding this on a Saturday?

Unknown Speaker
Yep. And the largest emission that you could ever imagine. Is can be broken down into multiple steps. And you just have to take that first step and once you take The first step Doesn’t it seem that you kind of are on a, like a railroad, you know, runaway freight train just kind of careening down this track? And it’s happening and you almost feel like it’s dragging you sometimes. You’re not Yeah, and that you’re not steering it, you know?

Unknown Speaker
Oh, yes, that has happened, that has definitely happened more often than once. And, you know, so so folks looking at, you know, hopefully taking your, you know, your course on sailing into their, their dream, and looking at even, you know, especially now in code, you know, the COVID world, it’s really a great time actually, to start a business especially, even if you, you know, been laid off from work, because, you know, really that’s it depending on what kind of business you’re wanting to start. Now. You know, if you’re obviously if you’re wanting to be the next, you know, Diamond in Port retailer in your state,

Unknown Speaker
hello. That’s going to take a lot of money, right?

Unknown Speaker
There’s so many businesses out there that you are able to do and and do it depending on your skills for very little money I you know, like I’ve never been I’m not really don’t even consider myself now a web applications developer I’ve been but you know the entire site even with its flaws and even with its, you know, technical issues that I have had and I’ve overcame most, I’ve done it all. I have learned it all. And whenever I’m talking to the developers of the two sides of the house, they can never pull any wool over my eyes because I know and or I will investigate. And, you know, also, you know, as a small business when you’re looking at your website, there’s there’s many free tools out there like WordPress and free templates, and so forth to do writing your own content is free. Doing the videos like this on zoom, it’s free. You’re doing that great backgrounds that you and I both have behind us is via Canva. That’s free. Right? And there’s there’s so many tools out there. There’s video editing software that’s free. You don’t even have to pay for Microsoft Office. There’s Libra office, which is free.

Unknown Speaker
But you wish you had told me that?

Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah, now I am. And of course, there’s Google, you know, Docs and so forth. I mean, there’s so many there are so technology has ended the freemium versions. Now you may not unselect Canva. For example, I use Canva. But I don’t and there’s a premium version I still have I still get everything done with their everything that they have for free. Yeah, right. I don’t I don’t currently pay for that particular service. There’s lots of services that I use that I see Just use the free version now eventually I’d love to upgrade. But I’m just trying to make sure that you know, everyone here listening, you know, can say, you know, holy, holy shit absolute, you know for a moment I can do this

Unknown Speaker
thing. Yeah, exactly think about it if I

Unknown Speaker
can build a group on LinkedIn of 46 and a half thousand global members that by the time you probably listen to this here in a few weeks, I have been told and I have provided all the materials to LinkedIn, they’re going to be featuring the group at the end of the month for pride. us first time in link in my groups 12 year history that LinkedIn has done that. Oh, so it’s about putting in the work. Nothing comes easy, and nothing comes for free. So let me just add that go get Larry’s training program. Ram, under 100 bucks, you can put yourself on the right course. But you also have to realize it’s about putting in your work. There there is no there is no instant, you know, gratification here, right?

Unknown Speaker
I was neither words nor worry affect outcome only action does exactly.

Unknown Speaker
My stain on that is magic and miracles happen when you have faith, faith in yourself and you take action. That’s right, because those who only have faith are rewarded a warm seat

Unknown Speaker
is very true. You get

Unknown Speaker
off your ass and do it. That’s my motto.

Unknown Speaker
It looks like right now in this crisis. I wish that I was approached by an entrepreneur saying hey I do in home haircuts because look at this how

Unknown Speaker
That’s a whole business I could use a haircut.

Unknown Speaker
Oh my goodness. You’re still Yeah, you’re in California guys, your your hair salon still have it opened up?

Unknown Speaker
No. It’s been a long time. I mean, I’m running on a gel.

Unknown Speaker
Oh my goodness too interesting. Well, my sister unfortunately. She’s in Lakeland, Florida. She is a hairstylist and she actually within one week of lockdown, she started visiting all of our customers at home.

Unknown Speaker
Oh, see? That’s brilliant. Yeah, absolutely. And it could be happening here. I just don’t know about it. But okay.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, Kepler was so very cool. So Larry, we will I so much appreciate you coming on with us today. Very Good to see you again. Obviously, hopefully next time you’re in the Fort Lauderdale area. We’ll get together for lunch or dinner

Unknown Speaker
like and when your issue was gone.

Unknown Speaker
I would love that set. Hopefully we’ll get some early adopters here. companies and of course some are based out in that area. Would you have to come out to San Francisco again?

Unknown Speaker
I’m gonna throw one more thing out which is that on my website all over it. Larry Jacobson comm there are places where you can click to contact me. And I offer a complimentary exploratory coaching session to anybody. Oh, wonderful. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker
And just like a 30 minute

Unknown Speaker
30 to 40 minutes and we’ll find it you know, see where you are. Maybe where you want to go to and kind of map out how we would get there. Just as an exploratory to see if they’re up for having a coach. I’m personally believe everybody needs a coach. I have a coach.

Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. And that’s where I so far I pay you a coach. Yesterday was a career coach. Last week had a holistic health coach. Excellent. So I personally have also, in my past have had the the fortune of having a coach for a year that was actually paid for by my employer, and the time and that coach worked with the entire infrared Information Technology Department.

Unknown Speaker
And that’s what

Unknown Speaker
started and I was long time ago, I was only 29 years old at the time. And that’s what was my first introduction to life in business coaching, kind of span both. And so it was a really wonderful experience. It helped open my eyes. And it was because one of the things after week we went through the whole Myers Briggs you know, And a couple other things. And it was about our about our fourth, third or fourth time that he and I were sitting down together. It was interesting again, I was still young, prior army working in my technology field and and that which actually led to a long career and it was partly from his advice. Because he said, you’re doing stuff that’s completely new. You’re creating totally new processes for this entire organization. You’re a very driven young man at the time. And how come you’re not out doing this for others? How come you’re sitting in this office with this paycheck, you should be earning three, four or 510 times this amount. Wow. And so he is the one who challenged me to I then did go become a director at a consulting firm, doing what I used to do, helping large companies understand how they own and manage their technology, business process consultants, etc. And it was from part of that foundation in my military expense experience of Sergeant Harry Tucker, who is one of the most influential people of my life. And he taught me very early. Again, not to I’m going to say exactly what he said today might sound a little, you know, sexist, or whatever, I won’t, but I will say exactly what he said. Be a man, tell me what you are going to do. And I will tell you if I have a problem with it. never asked me permission for anything because if you do, the answer will always be no. Whoo. Isn’t that amazing?

Unknown Speaker
Oh, wow. It is amazing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker
I was 18 years old.

Unknown Speaker
When Sergeant Harry Tucker came into my life I was stationed in our shopping Burg Germany. And was very interesting because he was a pagan. And everyone feared him. He was rather short. I’m 510 he was probably by three ish, heavy set. So he was a bit round. But boy, let me tell you that man commanded a presence like he was six foot four

Unknown Speaker
is great. The influence that he had on you?

Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah, it is. I mean, I constantly talk about him and one other person who, who’s actually from Columbus, Ohio, who now also lives in Fort Lauderdale. And his name is Steven Shellenberger second most influential person, man in my life. And he he’s one One of the top 10 LGBT rights activists of the state of Ohio is now a little into his 70s. But way back shortly after my ex and I had, I’d already been out of the military, Chris of my 20s was from Columbus, Ohio. So we move there. We actually are in two books. Because of his. He was kicked out of the military because of our relationship and we fought and gotten an honorable discharge. And so we were the poster boys for the don’t ask, don’t tell campaign in the state of Ohio during that whole period 1991 ish. And because of that political activism back then we ran town hall meetings. We were very involved politically in the Columbus Ohio area. So that’s how we met Stephen Shellenberger and he used to be a high school teacher. He and his partner built a business selling antiques just because of their hobby. That’s what they did together they wish

Unknown Speaker
they built their I

Unknown Speaker
going to garage sales and then reselling, for profit. But, but this guy started buying back in the day, just south of downtown Columbus, Ohio, and the largest contagious historic district in the United States called a German village. Beautiful, beautiful area, cobblestone streets and so forth. Well, he was buying it back in the 70s and 80s. For like, $1 a house from the city and take over the taxes. And then and then the refurbish them, I mean, you can’t touch any of those houses for like, under six 700,000 plus a million, you know, kind of places and So by the time I got to meet Stephen, he had already had all this success and it but it was building it based on his passion, things that he enjoyed doing and things that he had he could do. And it was actually stuff that he and his partner who died of HIV that they did together. And I really just admired him and how much he dedicated his his life to the LGBT community and equality. Equal Rights in the state of Ohio and, and nationally. And so one day sitting having a hamburger with my ex and I sitting at this place called maxima in the village, had German village and I asked him, I said, Steven, how did you how do you do this? How do I do this? How do I replicate what you’ve done and he just very casually without any He just said, well, Dennis, it’s simple. Do what you’re passionate about.

Unknown Speaker
If you do what you’re passionate about,

Unknown Speaker
it’ll drive you.

Unknown Speaker
It won’t seem like work you’ll work your ass off and the money will follow. Yeah. And so say yes. I just to share with you and our listeners that great little story. Shortly after I moved to Fort Lauderdale, and now in January a year ago, I you know, working on out bureau again, getting back to that entrepreneurial thing, working my tail off every day.

Unknown Speaker
It’s, it’s, it’s working.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it’s working. But I got to share this how the universe comes together, you know, when you believe in yourself. And so it was about three months or so after I had moved there. And some people in for in Fort Lauderdale. Come there, you know, seasonally, so I had not. So at any rate, it just note that and so one day, I’m like Like, oh my gosh, I’ve started out bureau on what little bit of savings I had for my divorce and selling the house. I put everything into it. I you know, I’m like staring at a finite bank account. And you know, just stuff going on craziness going on. And so I started, it was literally on a Tuesday afternoon at 330 I sat down in my living room that my duplex that I had there and was meditating I’m like, you know, universe, you need to show me a sign that I’ve made the absolute worst decision in my life. That moving to Fort Lauderdale was a great choice for me. And you know me, it can’t be some little butterfly fluttering around. It can’t be a dragon fly laying on my shoulder. Lightning. You need to punch me in the nose. Do you know I am not kidding. I was at 330 to four o’clock in the afternoon, at seven o’clock, I went to a local bar who also serves food. And most a lot of them do there. And I’m sitting at the edge of the bar. And all of a sudden this gentleman walks up to the bar and orders another glass of white wine. And I look at him. And Steven is always wearing very distinct round glasses. Very, you know, avant garde cheeky looking glasses. It’s been his signature look for years. So I look at him and I’m like, I haven’t seen this job. This man in over eight years. I’m like, Steven, and he looked at me, he goes, Dennis, and I’m like, Oh my god, I get up. I’m like, Hello, go over. Give him a big big hug. I’m like, oh my god. Steven, are you here? visiting? He goes, No, hon, I live here half time. I’m not about to move here full time. I’m like,

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
I now have met so many people. It’s one thing I love about Fort Lauderdale people are from all over. I now have. So I’ve known Steven since 1991. I’ve run into other people that I have known just as long from Columbus, Ohio, I’ve actually ran into a friend from Germany. And, you know, what that just did for me is whatever your sign is, whatever, you need to confirm you that you’re on the right path. It will come but first you have to get on your right path.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah. You a path. It might not even be the right path.

Unknown Speaker
At first. So true.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And you just have to take a step, take that first step. Whatever. That’s it. Once you’ve defined where you’re gonna go, then it’s a matter of knowing it’s going to take steps to get there. Take the first step. You know, I always say that I’ve achieved pretty much everything I’ve set out to achieve in my life. So my next question is, have I set out to achieve enough? And so, so I’m always looking for to take that first step towards the next thing,

Unknown Speaker
when that is that that is the key point is, you know, you just can’t dream it. You just get magic and miracles happen when you take action.

Unknown Speaker
That’s right,

Unknown Speaker
exactly. Good on you. You have to take action, because otherwise nothing happens.

Unknown Speaker
And I just want I love the idea of empowering people. And I want people to know that, you know, I’m just a regular guy who wanted to go sailing. And so I ended up sailing around the world and being the first gay person to do that. Well, yeah, that’s a big deal. But that’s only a big deal to me, really, because I’m the one who wanted to sail around the world. Whatever it is. Somebody else wants to do. That’s their big deal. And they can they can do it. I’m just a regular guy. I don’t have any special skills. I still don’t have enough skills to sail around the world. I’ve already done it. You know, so if I if I waited to get all the skills necessary to go sailing around the world, I’d still wouldn’t have left.

Unknown Speaker
So true. You got it. You got to take and learn along the way.

Unknown Speaker

Unknown Speaker
Yep. So so cool was well, wow, we’ve had a great conversations later, Larry. And

Unknown Speaker
as always, we can never we need another beer.

Unknown Speaker
Well, the copies and coffee and beer that’d be great. Was the thank you so much for joining me today. Always good to have a chat with you. We started a few years ago, talking on the phone. I got the opportunity to meet in person and now today we get to start doing this where others get to get a little bit of insight From the different experiences and knowledge and hopefully wisdom, yes, you know, hopefully we can help the world just a little bit. Absolutely. Well Larry, again, thank you so much for taking time out of your Saturday to chat with us. And it’s for everyone listening. Thank you so much for tuning in. You will find this video episode on out bureau comm that is O UT bu r o comm you will find that by clicking podcast up at the top you will find it also by searching Larry Jacobson. In addition, you will also find his professional profile on the site and links to all of the books and websites that we have mentioned and possibly a few more. So definitely check that out. You can also if you don’t want to be stuck and watch our facial expressions and all of that kind of stuff and how you communicate Because you know, hey visual is a lot of communication as well. You can also listen to the Euro Voices Podcast on the go with your favorite app, including Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcasts, and many more. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you would like to be on the show, please reach out to us by contacting us via the episode pages and be up. Be a guest. We’d love to hear your story and learn all about the interesting things going on with you your career and your business. Thank you so much again. I’m Dennis belko. And this was Larry Jacobson, the first gay out man to sell around the world.

Unknown Speaker
Bye bye. Thank you.

OutBuro Voices Interview Matthew French Awesomely Authentic Career Coach Educational College Prep Diversity Inclusion Consulting LGBT Professionals Gay Entrepreneurs LGBTQ Student Univerity Choices

Matthew French: Career Coach, College Prep, & Diversity Inclusion Consulting

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OutBuro Voices Interview Matthew French Awesomely Authentic Career Coach Educational College Prep Diversity Inclusion Consulting LGBT Professionals Gay Entrepreneurs LGBTQ Students University

Matthew French (He/Him/His) is the Founder and ‘90s-nostalgic brain behind Awesomely Authentic, a career-coaching, and inclusion organization that focuses on the unique experiences of LGBTQ+ people as they navigate the milestones of choosing a college to attend, searching for that perfect job, or making your company more inclusive. 

Matthew French on OutBüro

With ten years of experience working with the LGBTQ+ community, eight years of professional career coaching, and a love of the ‘90s, he has blended all of these aspects together to create an authentically high-energy tailored experience to each client in order to help them reach their professional and career goals. 

Why the ‘90s, you ask? This was an era of aberrance, vibrant colors, and animated cartoons that have influenced the way Awesomely Authentic operates. The search for a college, internship, job, or even tackling your D&I Initiatives can be daunting, but we believe that ‘90s-era fun can be achieved along the way! 

Matthew on LinkedIn

Conversation Transcript

The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview. Currently full interview not present.

Unknown Speaker 0:11
Hi there this is Dennis belko without bureau that’s o UT a bu r Thank you so much for tuning in to this week’s episode. We are trying the videos. Once again we did do a video with Celia Daniels and then just did audios. We’re going to be trying to do more videos as we move forward and extracting that audio for the podcast. on any of the episodes shows. If you’re wondering where to find this on any of the episode shows or the out bureau comm name pad podcast page, simply check out just just right under the main headings. You will see three bars that are in gray and one will say where to listen and follow this podcast. We are on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcast, and many others. Please follow us on your favorite application today. And at any time you can come to the out your episode page to view the full video interviews like we’re doing today with the fantastic fantastic and fun today. Matthew French. Matthew, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:27
Thank you so much for having me, Dennis. I’m super stoked to be here. I really appreciate I’ve given to have some time to chat.

Unknown Speaker 1:34
Awesome, awesome and look at that funding background that we have for Matthew and that is because his a company that is called awesomely authentic and where he is a career coach to students as well as professionals throughout their entire career from entry level such as students entering into the career marketplace. mid career and even senior career professionals. He helps you focus on your career and communicating what you have achieved and the value proposition that you have for prospective employers. So very pertinent to not only our out bureau on LinkedIn group where we have over currently 46, nearly 46 and a half thousand global members, but our site is out focusing on the LGBT professional and entrepreneurs. So as an entrepreneur who is also focusing on the career space, thank you so much for joining us, Matthew, again, and if you could please let’s start out by giving a little bit of kind of your career background and bringing you up to today which will pivot but give us a little bit of background as to your education, your background, and How that has begun to lead you into the direction that you are now taking as a as I believe you’re more of a startup, and but you have a long history, which has given you the foundation for this new startup. So give us some info.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like with a lot of people and Career Services, so that’s where a lot of my background comes from. I went to Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, from a small town in Virginia, called Pocahontas, Virginia, so you should totally check it out. It’s very small. If you want to ride four wheelers or something in the woods, that’s a great place to go. Then I went to Old Dominion, did an undergraduate in communications, got really involved in the queer community during that time working in student orgs being a part of Hampton Roads LGBT Center, and then I was a column undergrad, so I was not sure what to do with that degree. I had dabbled in the world of entertainment through being a casting director. And that just, it just didn’t fill up my cup, you know. And so I decided to go to grad school. And I went to grad school at Old Dominion University where I focused on lifespan and digital communication, and specifically LGBT identities around fan communities. So around superheroes, and then I also focused on LGBT identities, and how they focused around technologies like using technology to stay connected and specifically looking at apps like Grindr. But during grad school, I got connected to my career center. I was like, cool, I get to plan events. I get to help students, I get to reach out to employers, this will be fun. And so I did that and that really led me on my whole career path of helping others demonstrate communicate their value to employers and how to best kind of demonstrate that not only to employees, what’s been said I feel like a lot of the people I work with really undervalue their skill sets. It’s Yeah, it’s an interesting world when you’re talking to people about their skills and their experiences and how they can utilize those. So working with students at Marymount Manhattan college was my first job out of grad school up in New York City in the Upper East Side, small liberal arts school about 2000 students mostly Performing Arts, some business and then I switched over to UNC Charlotte about five years ago, where I did career advising mostly for again liberal arts and science arts Media Design, and focusing in on an industry of arts media and design. So helping communicate everything from engineering, to communications to business if you want to work with Disney, you fall under my under my roof. So I would talk with those students about how to best frame their experiences for that particular industry and continually through all of them staying engaged with the LGBTQ community through different ways. And once COVID hit, you know, I just had a lot of outreach from people a lot of help was needed. And through leadership that I have and mentors that I’ve had, they really encouraged me to, you know, start my own consulting to help queer people find the spaces where they could flourish. Because I’m a big believer, I’m weird. And I think everyone has that right to be as weird or not weird as they want to be in their job to be as authentic as they can. So I love to keep it fun and funky and fresh and just kind of pulling from the 90s vibe of like bright colors to really set that tone or getting that professional experience started. Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker 6:46
And so you know, sometimes it’s it’s really hard for people to break through the noise. You know, when you’re looking at resume after resume or you know, once you’ve passed that article Official intelligence span and you’re getting to that human. Yeah, um, you know, having having your resume look really polished. Uh, but having that that spin having that that color palette that layout, that main headline and so forth. That speaks to the professional side, but also just has that poppin wow factor. Yeah, that that grabs that attention. I think that’s really important. And from what I seen, it seems like that’s something that you focus on, on bringing out the personalities of the people as well.

Unknown Speaker 7:35
Totally. Yeah. So this is like a fun little tidbit that I always encourage people to do is one way when you’re figuring out your brand and how you’re going to look to employers. A lot of times people are just like, I don’t know where to start with that. So the best way to start is start with yourself and thinking about what are maybe three brands that you love, that you use a lot you like what they’re doing, and the World, anything like that. And then once you have those three brands, go through their Instagram, go through their website, look at their logos, see what colors they have and which ones speak to you. And you’ll usually see common themes around colors, texts, shapes, that you can then kind of take and metamorphosize into your own personal brand that you can then use on your resume that bleeds over into your LinkedIn. If you have your own website, it can bleed over to there, it can bleed over out Bureau, it’s really about creating a consistent narrative about who you are, and letting that be the authentic self so that way employers are like, you come to life for me, you’re more than just a resume I understand you are based off of just looking at the tones and textures across all these platforms.

Unknown Speaker 8:45
Now, you know, I completely agree and that, you know, you you know, as a professional, you really do need to set your your own brand out there. And interestingly forget his name off the top of my head. But there is a person in my LinkedIn connections and he’s also in the group and I wish I could pull his name up right now, but he’s a realtor in the US and Canada, I forget which it’s not one of the main cities are popping into my head. But what was really interesting is as a realtor, he has he he has these small video monologues. And he talks about connecting with his, you know, audience and one video that he did literally just a week ago, already has, like over 250 likes over 100 comments. And, and well, I even commented to him I’m, you know, I rarely reach out and go beyond the purely professional realm but because we’re connected and we’ve had a little bit of dialogue in the past He was questioning whether he should or someone else was questioned whether he should still be doing it and what purpose of it is it and so forth and he’s like, this is my brand. This is what I’m doing. And I actually messaged him I said, Oh, keep it up handsome.

Unknown Speaker 10:15
They’re also love your background, they just got a Danish modern

Unknown Speaker 10:22
bookcase behind and so forth. But, you know, even when looking for a job, what I recommend for for people to do is you know, whether that’s on LinkedIn and hopefully you’re also creating your brand on out o ut Is I constantly invite people to no matter what field they’re in, to begin writing and publishing articles even if that’s just one or two or three articles about their knowledge their take on the industry, their take on the technology whatever that happens to be, so that in addition to a professional profile, which is indexed and searched, and so forth, and people can find you, and when employers do then find you on that side, they know you identify and are an ally with the LGBT community, which you know, is diversity and inclusion recruiting. But then, as they see those articles that are also being posted, they see, oh, not only did they go to this school and have this degree and have this bit of, you know, professional education, look, there are so look at these articles that they’ve written in and around that topic. This is the kind of person that we want to hire someone who seems very comfortable in their knowledge and their ability to communicate that knowledge because you know, today, in today’s time, it’s very important to not only have the technical skills, but Have those soft skills as well. And being able to communicate, you know, your knowledge and taking complex ideas and theories and so forth and bringing them down into a, whether that’s a video conversation. And of course, you can also post videos on the site, but adore articles that demonstrates that you thoroughly understand your topic. And it’s going to make those employers go, Wow, that’s a really interesting person. I liked the content that they produced these few articles that really has helped set them apart in my mind.

Unknown Speaker 12:38
When value added its value added, right? It’s if you’re able to speak and demonstrate that you’re up on the industry standards. And you’re also able to, again, like you said, communicate those things. Employers are always looking for more tidbits again, to give them a more full picture of your narrative and who you are as a brand. So if you’re able to write those things, out, you know, I have to admit, I am not the best writer, but you put me on a video and I am there for it. So I already like on my website, I know writing isn’t my strong suit. It’s not something I really enjoy. But I really love doing vlogs. So I used transition line from a blog to a vlog because it’s working to my skills and my strengths, but it’s also a part of the brand, you know, right excitement, you know, and it’s trying to get that out there. And that’s what people have to think about. When you’re thinking about your brand. You’re thinking about how employers are going to perceive you. It’s always important to think about what is this demonstrating as a skill set, right? What is it demonstrating that you’re good at public speaking is demonstrating that you’re detail oriented, because the one thing especially disoriented, I cannot tell you how many people I’ve put, I’m detail oriented, and then they have a misspelling in the resume. So it’s like actually demonstrating those skill sets at work. It also gives you work samples, things you can add your portfolio. It’s it. Again, it’s all about giving the employer more information. On the upfront, because that will also help if employers are searching for you. Right? If you’re on LinkedIn and out Bureau and you have your own website, the likelihood of them digging in then and going for let’s say, your Instagram or your Facebook, maybe places you don’t want them to see as much of that’s less likely because they’ve already gotten enough to understand you as a professional from the things that you’ve already put out there that you are controlling.

Unknown Speaker 14:23
Well, speaking of those other apps, I will say on out bureau comm I’ve written twice, one article on security and privacy for the LGBT professional and it’s all about, you know, locking your locking your stuff down. And one of the things in a couple of articles that I’ve written is, you know, you know, just be very, very cautious and think really hard about the kinds of things that you post on any platform because once posted you may it’s never gone and you may think that Oh, I’ve deleted it from Facebook so therefore it doesn’t exist ball shit. It’s still out there it’s still on those servers because just because you delete something does not mean it’s truly deleted. And you know when you think about even those those apps like you mentioned Grindr, okay. One there’s also I’ve written about and people can Google This is that you know, the US government has warned about that and tick tock that they could be security issues because they share so much information with marketers and so forth. And and going to a point to is, you know, just, you know, when you think you’re in that one on one conversation with that hot stud, and you’re sending those picks up, know that that can be screen captured. Hello very easily. And used tomorrow against you or us at any point in the future against you. So just be very, very cautious of everyone be very, very cautious about, you know, what you send on any platform. And of course, yeah, and of course on out Bureau, it’s only professionally oriented content, no hot torsos shots, love them from my boys on Facebook. But you know, it’s it’s not appropriate for the workspace.

Unknown Speaker 16:32
So but it’s actually a good point. I would like to touch on that a little bit because it is a different aspect than what

Unknown Speaker 16:38
professional career counselors sometimes have to deal with. When you’re coming from the queer community. We’ve created our own spaces where we’re safe, right? So whether that be a drive bar or LGBTQ center, or you know, it used to be a lot of like Craigslist or you know those types of areas, being aware of your friends. And and how those things can come back to you. So having those conversations around, I do with clients, you know, quite a bit of saying like, what platforms do you use, like be aware that you’re you’re currently around people who are seeing you. So if you don’t want to be out of work, or you want to come out on your own terms that could hurt you. If someone works that institution or works at that company, and they’re on Grindr, or one of the apps, right, so it’s being aware that those things can come to you and being aware like, on your Instagram, I believe me, if I had a six pack, I would show it off as well. But what does that communicate to an employer if most of your shots tend to be of yourself? Barely close in some instances, and a lot of employers I’ve spoke with because, you know, I’ve worked with 2000 plus employers now from across industries. And the thing that they say consistently, especially around millennials, and Gen Z, below millennials is that what they worry about with us the most is that we are self serving and self obsessive. And so I’ve had employers tell me that if someone on their Instagram has too many selfies, that’s a red flag for them, because they really, they’re self centered, and they worry about their team. workability so it’s being aware of like, what does that communicate to you?

Unknown Speaker 18:17
Interesting, interesting. Okay. So it needs to be more group photos.

Unknown Speaker 18:24
From a dog in there, if you got a pop, like, you know, take a picture of some flowers, I don’t know, but it’s really thinking through like that brand. And I’m always very cautious. Actually, I don’t want to I’m cautious. I’m cognizant that you know, I everything I post is going to be seen by someone and you know, even sometimes adding in that little blurb if you’re currently working, like views are my own right because there are a lot of employers are cracking down on you’re not allowed a certain amount of social media. I know of employers in higher ranking government offices where they will actually sit down with you and want to go through all of your private messages on Facebook and Instagram. So yeah, it’s a lot so you just got to be aware that’s the whole that’s really is just like awareness building you know?

Unknown Speaker 19:08
Right right yeah especially in the government entities if you’re going for any level of security clearance you you depends on what you post yeah it can be done you can be over so so so so word of caution for everyone lock your stuff down and keep it clean if you need to go back and do your best yes it will still be out there on servers but not publicly visible. I for one my Facebook is is is locked down only people who are connected with me see what I post but what I post is very simple. Yes, I do go hiking and I occasionally post a hiking picture. But, but I don’t post a lot. Nothing like I do on LinkedIn. You know like once or twice A week on Facebook. And that’s it. So, anyhow, folks heed the warning from a career coaching professional. Be aware, read the articles on out bureau about privacy, and just, you know, take that into mind. So one of the other things that when we had our first conversation a minute ago or so, is, you know, the the concept of, you know, should you be out on your resume, since you’re focusing a lot of your attention, although not exclusively on the LGBT community? Could you talk a little bit about, you know, being out having indicators on your resume that you’re part of the LGBT community and what you have seen in and around that?

Unknown Speaker 20:45
Sure. So the first question I always ask is, where are you at and where do you want to? How open Do you want to be at your place of work? My boyfriend is a perfect example. He is an occupational therapist at a retirement community org working with a lot more elderly So, and he’s not really been involved in the queer community. But in his instance, like he feels more comfortable, like that’s his work life. And then this is his home life. A couple people were no but not he’s not something he’s out about. Whereas me, on the other hand, I am, like, everyone knows that I’m involved in queer things on campus. I’m involved in queer things in the community. So it’s really deciding for yourself, how out do you want to be? And then we work from there. So I let’s take example. And this is when we talked about was it let’s say you’re working at an LGBT Center or you volunteered in the LGBT Center, right? You’re learning a lot of awesome skills there. You can work learn things about communication, working with people during crises, doing programming, building networks, all of those awesome things that you can bring to a company. Now if you’re thinking about, you know, I want to be out on my resume. Those are great little signifiers to just demonstrate that you’re queer or an ally. So you can definitely then focus on those skills. But if you’re being thinking, well, I don’t know, if I want to come right out like that, you could say that you’re part of a community service organization. And then you focus on those skill sets, because those skill sets are the majority and the chunk that matters. But where it really changes up is you got to think past the resume too. You have to think past resume and think I’m going to have to go into an interview. Do I want to bring my significant other to the holiday party? Do I want to have a picture of them on my best? Those are all things you have to think through. And it’s hard to think through that on your own, especially if you’re going into particular industries or sections, or you’re at different hiring levels. These are all things you want to take into account. I mean, my personal perspective is the biggest thing that matters are the skill sets that you’re learning there. And that’s what we want to always communicate right. So I’ve definitely seen a wide array and this goes for everything likes, people who have things like around religion on their resume, party affiliations, anything like that, and there are some employers that I always say get a little iffy if something SJW like social justice warrior comes up in there. They get nervous because they’re like, oh, are they going to cause us think about something? Right? And then the thing, is that a place that I want to be, you know, right, right, it’s okay for you to interview the employer and decide if that’s a good place for you to be. And professionally and personally.

Unknown Speaker 23:29
Right. Well, I think that that’s a good point there. And it’s, uh, you know, especially in today’s time, you know, you have to make those personal decisions. And I have, you know, been in a LinkedIn group that I’ve had people say, you know, the well because also their career paths and there, they have none of their skill set has come from working with LGBT organizations and therefore, they you know, was was not pertinent to their Rear. And you know, so people have been like, well, it adds no value. So why would I put that? Well, of course, but there’s also people who have, you know, there’s very some very wonderful large LGBT focused organizations that, you know, have 50 100 600 employees, and you could be working in their IT department for several years, and maybe you’ve done some amazing things within that organization and you work there for three or four years and now transitioning to a different job and, you know, putting that skill set is very pertinent and, you know, having the, the having it on your resume, it’s, it’s, you know, everyone has their own personal journey and their own personal comfort level. You know, some people are again, like, well, it has no pertinence. I’m, you know, this is my career, and I just Treat it as a non issue and it’s nobody’s business what I do at home, and then other people are like, you know, no, I want to make sure that that they’re going to accept me and my full rainbow self and if they don’t screw them because I don’t want to go to work for someone who’s not going to accept me at all. I’m like fabulousness. Right, exactly, you know, everyone is on their own spectrum. And and so there’s no right or wrong answer to that question. It’s for you to answer for your individual self with you and your individual career path. And, you know, maybe for your career, you need to work for period at a homophobic organization, just because you want that skill set that they are going to offer for a year or two, but you know, it’s going to be like, Alright, I’m going to walk in there. I’m going to keep my head down. I’m going to get that on my resume, then I’m going to be like, you, bye bye. Next. I mean, I’ve had people talk about that too, like they knew that they were walking into an extremely homophobic environment, but they knew they were going to injure that just to because it was the only place that they could get the particular stuff on the resume that they needed for the next jump. And I think that’s also very important when you’re looking at your career. Because I get hit with questions all the time. And I’m always looking, let’s like, Look, I’m not I’m not the professional, you know, career coach. I’m not a professional diversity and inclusion consultant, but here are the people who are FYI. So do you. But as I, as I tell people in the past, it’s like, Yeah, sometimes, you know, when you’re looking at your career, you need to think about where you’re going to be where you want to be five years from now. And look for a job and a company that’s going to give you the skills that you’re going to need for your next Next move, you know, honestly be looking at because that’s why you have to interview essentially, and assess that organization. Does it have the job, the reputation that’s that you want? And does it have the the job opportunity that’s going to take you to that next level, either within that company or another company? Because let’s face it, companies are not loyal to you. They’re only loyal to they’re only loyal to their profits. Yeah, so most work most companies are you know, like, even here in Florida, it’s worth work at will estate or at will estate, meaning that they can let you go for no calls whatsoever at any time with no recourse. So many states are like that. And as soon as and, you know, unfortunately, with the COVID, you know, we’ve seen so many people have been laid off. I mean, with cause but you know, just realize that

Unknown Speaker 28:00
Companies are not going to look out for you.

Unknown Speaker 28:04
Period, you have to look out for you. So you are the numero uno, because as soon as their profits start dipping, they’re going to say goodbye. They’re going to say, so sorry, we’re laying you off. So you need to take that into your mind. And you need to realize that it’s no longer like my dad worked for two employers his entire life, you know, it’s no longer that way. And so you have to think of strategically What does this employer add value to me? Do they have all the benefits that I want do or do they have domestic partner benefits? Do they have all the LGBT benefits and inclusivity that I can actually go to work, be proud to work there. And for those people that I know throughout my career history, is this the type of employer that I would recommend to others. And if not, again, maybe it’s a strategic move. on your part, but you know you as an LGBTQ person need to seriously think is this the kind of employer that I want to work for because and just don’t take and hopefully all of you out there will start rating your encourage and recent past employers anonymously on out bureau calm, because, uh, frankly we’ll see I’m not trying to beat folks up. I’m not I just facts, just facts sweetie. But you know when you look at the list of employers who rank 100% on the HRC Human Rights Campaign on corporate Equality Index, don’t think at all that that hundred percent score is much more than yes effort. But But mostly a lot of marketing. are many of the organizations very proud and so forth. Yes. However, don’t think that just because a corporation has achieved that Very few limited 1000 level companies who have the privilege to be on that list and paid the money to be on that list $21 million a year

Unknown Speaker 30:13
total. So it’s not cheap.

Unknown Speaker 30:17
So realize, though, that even for example, Goldman Sachs again, not trying to beat folks up, just fat, just truth and facts and news is in the news, okay, they’ve been on the list of HR C’s corporate Equality Index ranked 100% for several years, and even just this past year yet again, was was touted as one of the best places in the financial sector to work for, okay, and they just had to settle a lawsuit where someone was after eight years of working there, got a new boss, and that new boss was a homophobic asshole, and started making comments like are you doing that? Because you’re gay. Why do you have to sound so gay? And making comments like that to the point where he brought it to HR, no action was taken until it got so bad that finally guess what they hired him saying that he was not interested in his work any longer. Well, excuse me, there’s a hostile work environment where I’m constantly being berated and discriminated against and harassed for being who I am as an LGBT person. HR hasn’t taken any actions against it except to so yeah, it might it might someone’s work performance declined a little bit because they don’t feel comfortable in their workspace and they don’t feel safe. Sure, but they used that as a reason to fire that person, which is been retaliation. So there was a lawsuit in and around that. So just I’m just saying, Be aware

Unknown Speaker 31:59
that Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 32:01
like bets. And I think that’s, you know, from the Career Coach perspective, I would say if a client came to me about those issues, I always, you know, definitely talk about what are your legal protections. But the thing that a lot of us, as LGBTQ people have to sometimes take on, that we don’t always want to take on right, is the spaces that we inhabit. by us, just being there is politicized and is, is made different, right? So a lot of times what we’re what we’re charged with is when we encounter those spaces is I always encourage clients to think through like, is this a space where you want to try to make change as a space where you want to back away and again, helping them kind of think through those things. I mean, I’m an educator, I’m from education. So I’ve been a part of a lot of like LGBTQ equality things over the years. So I’m usually in the space of like, I’m going to educate and I’m going to kind of changed from within and try to find ways that I can make that change like going to people and being like, we need to start go to the LGBT RG, we need to talk about this like making making a rustle about the things that like, are not connecting, right? If they’re on the HRC Equality Index, why is this happening to me and going into many organizations, organizations don’t do not that people based on their their perceptions on diversity and inclusion. And you have to like hit those people sometimes head on. And it’s really that decision. It’s not fair that we have to take up the mantle of being an educator or an activist and our role sometimes. But it’s kind of sometimes the name of the game of thinking through and I always like to think through it as you know, as a queer person who I’m okay with speaking up, like at least if I speak up now in an organization. Hopefully that makes at least some sort of change for the future. And that’s really what it’s about is Again, a lot of you know, career coaches, sometimes we use blanket type of advice. It doesn’t work that way, with queer people. We’re all coming from such diverse backgrounds, we’re all facing different intersectionalities of our identity around race, gender, socioeconomic status, that every single instance can be handled in a different way, depending on your personal preference. And so the person that’s there like, you know, I would have definitely have, like, encouraged them, like, what resources are available there, what resources are available, you know, around the surrounding community, and how do you connect those to make do or do what you know, if you’re not if you’re not longer able to do your job, because of those types of threats and those types of feelings that someone is targeting you. I mean, I think it’s very well to like go the go the legal route. It’s something that has to be done because change a lot of times can be messy and it’s important for people Not to go into looking at an employer like all they have these ratings, and there’s a lot of different rating systems. Just because they have those ratings does not mean that everyone in that company has that perception, I think we’re able to troublesome to is if your human resources departments are not stepping in, and that’s where I’ve never been one to be like, hierarchy, right? Like, oh, I report to this manager. And so I tell them that and then they’ll go and tell that person, I am the first one, like, if my direct supervisor does not do anything, or I feel like there’s nothing being done, I’m the first one to jump over everybody, and be like, okay, we’ll just go to the head honcho, because clearly, you know, so it’s really kind of like setting up those steps. And that’s where someone like, you know, talking to local community members reaching out on LinkedIn posting about hero, that’s where you can find what are some strategies of working around a lot of these things.

Unknown Speaker 35:53
Absolutely. And, you know, I’d like to clarify been very,

Unknown Speaker 35:58
very vocal. In my writings on it, you know, get I’m not trying to beat up. It’s just news facts right? And there and there’s other other organizations that I’ve, I’ve used in my examples in the past. But, you know, the thing is, is that the the policies of a company are the intent, and also the CIA, frankly,

Unknown Speaker 36:28
to help mitigate litigation in the future.

Unknown Speaker 36:33
For example, a lot of the companies who have LGBTQ inclusive policies also have what’s called forced arbitration. Which means when you come on board as an employee, you are signing away your right to publicly sue them, which so if you get discriminated against or harassed, you cannot put forth a public lawsuit you are forced into arbitration Which doesn’t see the light of public day, it keeps it out and no, so you can’t talk about it. So that way it keeps their image from being from it being known. So those are that’s why when you when you do post on out Bureau, it’s anonymous. We know who you are, but it’s anonymous publicly, so that you can still share it also, just in case you still feel like there’s a potential issue. I actually created a catch all employer box called out bureau so that because it’s really important for those those issues to be to become known as a collective. And over time, the goal is is that that will be able to as more and more people utilize the services and input the demographics and all those kinds of things as part of their review. That will actually be be able to partner with folks like yourself And the educational side provides to statistical data through it, but but realizing, as you pointed out that, you know, these larger organizations who have these, you know, wonderful and I do applaud everyone who has them, it’s a step in the right direction. But when they have 100, you know, just using the example of 100,000 employees, as you stated, The though all of those employees when someone when an organization enacts you know, LGBT friendly policies, non discrimination policies and so forth, that doesn’t just automatically, you know, overnight, turned all 100,000 employees into your day. Yeah, right, Rainbow waving, unicorn writing, loving, magical land, right. They still have their, they still have their biases, and so forth, those lifelong learning prejudices and biases that it’s a lot to overcome. We’ve seen that on race and we’ve seen In it on sexual harassment, you know, sexual harassment has been illegal here in the United States since 1978. Every year corporations put all kinds of effort into annual training, signing off and so forth. And yet it still happens. Right? So, you know, that’s something too. So it’s not that I’m necessarily I’m not trying to beat up organizations at all, but I’m just trying to, you know, reality check. Because when I don’t want companies to think that just because they are on those corporate Equality Index lists, that we think they’re perfect, because they’re not perfect.

Unknown Speaker 39:40
The work is never done, the work is never done. When you’re dealing with these identities, our I mean, our identities, guys that are politicized and it’s it is what it is, and that’s where we’re having to work within the spectrums of like, heterosexual life daily. So it is truly self worth. Just to kind of like work through.